Offroad Trailblazers and Envoys

Done with IFS...

BDS, ReadyLift, Smaxx... You name it, we know about it here.

by fishsticks » Mon Nov 28, 2011 2:14 am

For all of you who are wondering, my TRE conversion did great. No signs of failure whatsoever. I highly recommend going forward with that mod if you think you need it.


In other news, I went out on a snow run today to break in the new parts. Before we got to the snow we hit a gravel pit with a few good hill climbs. Everything was heavily rutted and generally a snotty mess. Lots of go-pedal required.

I got over the first one no sweat.

I tried the middle one (the hardest) and got about halfway up, 4LO and hard on the throttle all the way. My front tires came off the ground and the truck came down HARD on the skids and stopped dead in its tracks. Mike's product saved me again. My front tires were both in ruts too deep for them to reach ground, so I backed down.

I went up the third (middle difficulty). About 3 quarters of the way up, I got a metallic sound from the front end, then lost momentum quickly. I ran out of steam just below the crest of the hill. My left front wheel was still giving the ground hell, my right wheel sat there flaccidly.

I backed down and got out the tools, prepared for a CV axle change. Lo and behold my right side CV axle was no worse for wear. I jacked up the right front tire and it spun freely, which for me is a sign of trouble.


After a little fiddling and observation I've come down to three possibilities:

1. I've grenaded the AWD sleeve I installed in my splined disconnect. (Unlikely, as the CV axle has no signs of excessive play and there are no strange noises coming from that area)
2. I've damaged the carrier or locker somehow. (Also no sounds from this area, and the left wheel works fine still)
3. I'm the first non-SS TB to strip the splines off the intermediate shaft. (Where I'm leaning.)


As an aside, I decided that since it was so early in the day, I'd run the snow trails in 3WD. All was going OK until I started dog-walking up a hill. I cranked the wheel and powered through, got up the hill, and blew my power steering pump. :facepalm: I rode shotgun in a Yota on 38's the rest of the day. I drove the TB 50 miles home.


Back to the main point. All of the above scenarios have one thing in common: I can't get/make a stronger replacement unit. I'm at a dead end. Other IFS diffs are a no go: The 8.25 has no locker options, and the 9.25 is so huge I might as well SAS the truck. I can't keep this thing together and alive at the level I want to perform. I'm fine with justifying upgrades on parts that wear out, but that's all out the door when I start replacing parts I've already replaced. As I look over the numbers, I'm quickly coming to that point where the upgrades/repairs will cost more than if I had just SAS'd or gone with another platform.

So here are my options:

1. Quit wheeling (whatever)
2. Sell my Camaro (which I hardly drive anymore) and use the money to SAS the TB.
3. Sell/trade my Camaro for a dedicated wheeler. Most likely a 1st gen or SAS 4Runner.

To the dismay of many, I'm leaning towards option 3. I already have a possible trade deal lined up.

Option 2 has several technical difficulties that go along with it, ones I'm not sure even Steve has encountered yet. They deal mostly with the computer and what it thinks you should be doing during various operations. (Hint: Try backing up a steep incline in a low traction situation. Good luck.) Also, at the end of the day, option 2 means I'm still wheeling my DD/business rig... and I still have to scramble to fix things if I break.

If option 3 comes to pass, the TB will stay lifted, but will most likely be tamed down a bit for street/shooting trip usage. Some parts will come off and become available (exclusively) here. Of most interest will probably be: Z71 springs, 88 springs, front locker and I may be looking to trade down the 35s to 33s.

So that's where I'm at. I guess I have some thinking to do. :|
11 Silverado LTZ - 6.2L/6l80, 2/3 drop, self tuned
85 Hilux - 3RZ, dual cases, caged, 40s, chromo everything
02 TrailBlazer LTZ - 35s, lockers, balls - Gone but not forgotten - Build
User avatar
fishsticks
Moderator
 
Posts: 4356
Joined: Thu Apr 01, 2010 11:30 pm
Location: WA, Vancouver
Name: Donny
Vehicle Year: Other
Vehicle: Other Vehicle
DriveTrain: 4WD w/ Aftermarket Locker
Rank: Extreme Offroader

by bartonmd » Mon Nov 28, 2011 8:53 am

That sucks, man!

BTW, I think I've got an intermediate shaft you can have for shipping, if that's the issue...

Yeah, option 3 is generally the best scenerio... I always try not to have fun with my DD (which is why I have 5 vehicles, I guess)...

Mike
bartonmd
Moderator
 
Posts: 4469
Joined: Wed Sep 09, 2009 9:35 am
Location: IN, Indianapolis
Name: Mike
Vehicle Year: 2007
Vehicle: Chevrolet TrailBlazer
DriveTrain: 4WD w/ G80
Rank: Offroad Rated

by janesy86 » Mon Nov 28, 2011 9:18 am

Definitely sucks! Good luck with your decision Donny. I know I'd prob be leaning toward #3 as well.
Build Thread
Back to stock, had fun while it lasted...
janesy86
Veteran
 
Posts: 1291
Joined: Thu Sep 10, 2009 2:29 pm
Location: MA, Salem
Name: Nick Janes
Vehicle Year: 2007
Vehicle: Chevrolet TrailBlazer
DriveTrain: 4WD w/ G80
Rank: Offroad Rated

by The Roadie » Mon Nov 28, 2011 11:05 am

Agreed. Your mission is beyond what the platform can deliver. If only your terrain was more like what I have available. I like to get to the top of things up high where the view is the best, and the speed of the crawl is irrelevant. "Powering through" is too risky for me, and as I get older, the less enthusiastic I am about fixing or even diagnosing stuff on the trail. I just don't like it to break, so I stay off the gas if the wheels aren't straight. Good luck with a difficult decision.
User avatar
The Roadie
Founder
 
Posts: 5011
Joined: Mon Sep 07, 2009 11:29 pm
Location: OR, Portland area
Name: Bill Carton
Vehicle Year: 2004
Vehicle: GMC Envoy
DriveTrain: 4WD w/ G80
Rank: Expedition Guide

by Trail X » Mon Nov 28, 2011 12:38 pm

I think your decision will be made once you figure out what broke. That's step 1.

If it's indeed the diff or locker, I think you have some difficult decisions to make. If it's just an intermediate shaft or a sleeve, or something else, maybe you won't have to make the hard decisions.

I'm thinking you need to commission a new part... some sort of intermediate shaft + sleeve that would replace all the gears in the disconnect and the intermediate shaft.
8-) Build Thread | ExPo Build | YouTube Videos
Not all who wander are lost. -Tolkien
User avatar
Trail X
Founder
 
Posts: 9925
Joined: Mon Sep 07, 2009 10:22 pm
Location: VA, Roanoke
Name: James Downing
Vehicle Year: 2005
Vehicle: Chevrolet TrailBlazer
DriveTrain: 4WD w/ Aftermarket Locker
Rank: Expedition Guide

by fishsticks » Mon Nov 28, 2011 1:43 pm

bartonmd wrote:BTW, I think I've got an intermediate shaft you can have for shipping, if that's the issue...


Thanks, I'll likely take you up on that, as I'm nearly positive it's the shaft. I've had so many failures I know what each sounds like now. :mrgreen:


janesy86 wrote:Definitely sucks! Good luck with your decision Donny. I know I'd prob be leaning toward #3 as well.


Thanks. It makes sense for me to in a number of ways.


The Roadie wrote:Agreed. Your mission is beyond what the platform can deliver. If only your terrain was more like what I have available. I like to get to the top of things up high where the view is the best, and the speed of the crawl is irrelevant. "Powering through" is too risky for me, and as I get older, the less enthusiastic I am about fixing or even diagnosing stuff on the trail. I just don't like it to break, so I stay off the gas if the wheels aren't straight. Good luck with a difficult decision.


The difference in mission is apparent. Folks like you, Greg, James, Alec, you guys have places to go and you need a truck that will get you there. I still think the 360 is a great platform for that. It seems for me the journey has become the destination, if that makes sense. I could give a damn if the endpoint is 5 blocks from my house. If there are rocks along the way I am game. :mrgreen: I've had some pretty amazing success, a lot more than I ever imagined actually. As my confidence level goes up so does my willingness to use my right foot. Fixing things constantly, on or off the trail, is getting old though. It's not an age thing, it's a money/time/Ihavebettershittobedoinglikewheeling thing.


JamesDowning wrote:I think your decision will be made once you figure out what broke. That's step 1.

If it's indeed the diff or locker, I think you have some difficult decisions to make. If it's just an intermediate shaft or a sleeve, or something else, maybe you won't have to make the hard decisions.

I'm thinking you need to commission a new part... some sort of intermediate shaft + sleeve that would replace all the gears in the disconnect and the intermediate shaft.


Everything is in flux right now as I still need to figure out what broke this time. But realistically I'm in no position time or money wise to have new parts designed/made. There's a one piece unit from 1st gen Bravadas that the S10 crowd has had some success with. They are 26 spline units like ours and should accept our axles. But those are getting scarce and would still require a ton of fabrication to adapt to our trucks. Ultimately many S10 people scrap their IFS in the end anyway.
11 Silverado LTZ - 6.2L/6l80, 2/3 drop, self tuned
85 Hilux - 3RZ, dual cases, caged, 40s, chromo everything
02 TrailBlazer LTZ - 35s, lockers, balls - Gone but not forgotten - Build
User avatar
fishsticks
Moderator
 
Posts: 4356
Joined: Thu Apr 01, 2010 11:30 pm
Location: WA, Vancouver
Name: Donny
Vehicle Year: Other
Vehicle: Other Vehicle
DriveTrain: 4WD w/ Aftermarket Locker
Rank: Extreme Offroader

by v7guy » Mon Nov 28, 2011 1:52 pm

I'd like to see option 2, but I get why someone would do option 3. It'd be better if you didn't have to sell the Camaro, but I'd be lying if I said I hadn't thought about getting rid of my firebird on a few occasions. I get it.
Still would like to see another SAS just because.
build thread

All things in moderation, including moderation.
Some people never go crazy... what truly horrible lives they must lead
User avatar
v7guy
Moderator
 
Posts: 3712
Joined: Wed Mar 09, 2011 10:17 pm
Location: NY, long island
Name: Jason
Vehicle Year: 2004
Vehicle: Chevrolet TrailBlazer
DriveTrain: 4WD
Rank: Offroad Rated

by bartonmd » Mon Nov 28, 2011 2:07 pm

fishsticks wrote:
JamesDowning wrote:... ...
I'm thinking you need to commission a new part... some sort of intermediate shaft + sleeve that would replace all the gears in the disconnect and the intermediate shaft.


Everything is in flux right now as I still need to figure out what broke this time. But realistically I'm in no position time or money wise to have new parts designed/made. There's a one piece unit from 1st gen Bravadas that the S10 crowd has had some success with. They are 26 spline units like ours and should accept our axles. But those are getting scarce and would still require a ton of fabrication to adapt to our trucks. Ultimately many S10 people scrap their IFS in the end anyway.


I wonder what that would cost, in a quanity of 10 or something... Like made of chromoly and cryo'd... Like, already have a design, and have a driveline shop make it... If it could be done for $200 or something, and the next weakest link is the 1/2 shafts (relitively easy trail fix), it may be worth looking into; but if it's a $600 part that just makes another internal break, instead (like the locker or the diff), then not worth it... You want a fuse, but you want a fuse that isn't hard to change, or expensive... $50 half shafts are just that... Other than that, the intermediate shaft, itself, is probably one of the better things to have break, given the choice... Not a "trail" fix, really, but also doesn't stop you from going anywhere, and you still have the driver wheel powered...

Mike
bartonmd
Moderator
 
Posts: 4469
Joined: Wed Sep 09, 2009 9:35 am
Location: IN, Indianapolis
Name: Mike
Vehicle Year: 2007
Vehicle: Chevrolet TrailBlazer
DriveTrain: 4WD w/ G80
Rank: Offroad Rated

by Karo » Mon Nov 28, 2011 2:56 pm

If we had the option in getting some portals like these there would be a way to live with the IFS:

http://maefare4x4centre.com/product_por ... _unit1.htm

Personally a like the GMT 360 platform, but i would go with option 3.
Karo
User avatar
Karo
Trail-Blazer
 
Posts: 342
Joined: Fri Sep 11, 2009 3:02 am
Location: Berlin Germany 52°30'35.16"N, 13°15'31.99"E
Name: Karsten
Vehicle Year: 2002
Vehicle: Chevrolet TrailBlazer
DriveTrain: 4WD w/ G80
Rank: Trail Ready

by Trail X » Mon Nov 28, 2011 3:20 pm

bartonmd wrote:I wonder what that would cost, in a quanity of 10 or something... Like made of chromoly and cryo'd... Like, already have a design, and have a driveline shop make it... If it could be done for $200 or something, and the next weakest link is the 1/2 shafts (relitively easy trail fix), it may be worth looking into; but if it's a $600 part that just makes another internal break, instead (like the locker or the diff), then not worth it... You want a fuse, but you want a fuse that isn't hard to change, or expensive... $50 half shafts are just that... Other than that, the intermediate shaft, itself, is probably one of the better things to have break, given the choice... Not a "trail" fix, really, but also doesn't stop you from going anywhere, and you still have the driver wheel powered...

Mike


Honestly it should be pretty simple. One male spline, one female spline with an undercut, and two bearing surfaces. Maybe we need to talk to Tom Woods.
8-) Build Thread | ExPo Build | YouTube Videos
Not all who wander are lost. -Tolkien
User avatar
Trail X
Founder
 
Posts: 9925
Joined: Mon Sep 07, 2009 10:22 pm
Location: VA, Roanoke
Name: James Downing
Vehicle Year: 2005
Vehicle: Chevrolet TrailBlazer
DriveTrain: 4WD w/ Aftermarket Locker
Rank: Expedition Guide

by dirty anton » Mon Nov 28, 2011 4:28 pm

hey donny with what little time i have with work i would be more than happy to help out with questions on an sas. "and anyone else for that matter" learned alot on the way [what to do, what not to do, what i wasted money on, things i would have done differently and so on]. steve was very helpful and forthcoming and had great advice.never would have done it without his help. i lucked out cause i had a little beeter to buzz around in while work was done. you can do alot of prefab while you still drive truck around as well [setting up gears, axle rebuild and what not]. i have bin able to drive around for a while now while working all the bugs out also. sucks to be in your position right now good luck with your choice bro.
User avatar
dirty anton
Trail-Blazer
 
Posts: 426
Joined: Thu Aug 19, 2010 12:21 am
Location: upper marlboro md
Name: mike
Vehicle Year: 2002
Vehicle: Chevrolet TrailBlazer
DriveTrain: 4WD w/ Aftermarket Locker
Rank: Extreme Offroader

by fishsticks » Mon Nov 28, 2011 4:42 pm

A stronger intermediate shaft is a good idea. But it doesn't cure the "What am I going to break next?" that's been inside my head for the last few months. Plus I doubt I can get 10 people to buy something they haven't or may never break.

I talked with the wife about sending the Camaro on it's way and got reluctant approval. I had the car when we met. She's driven it a lot of over the years as well and has some kill stories of her own from it. She has her Beetle now though and wants a car for the twisties, and I told her I'd build it for her.


Mike, thanks for the offer of help. If I decide to SAS the TB I'll be leaning on you and Steve pretty heavily.
11 Silverado LTZ - 6.2L/6l80, 2/3 drop, self tuned
85 Hilux - 3RZ, dual cases, caged, 40s, chromo everything
02 TrailBlazer LTZ - 35s, lockers, balls - Gone but not forgotten - Build
User avatar
fishsticks
Moderator
 
Posts: 4356
Joined: Thu Apr 01, 2010 11:30 pm
Location: WA, Vancouver
Name: Donny
Vehicle Year: Other
Vehicle: Other Vehicle
DriveTrain: 4WD w/ Aftermarket Locker
Rank: Extreme Offroader

by Trail X » Mon Nov 28, 2011 4:52 pm

fishsticks wrote:A stronger intermediate shaft is a good idea. But it doesn't cure the "What am I going to break next?" that's been inside my head for the last few months. Plus I doubt I can get 10 people to buy something they haven't or may never break.


You're not thinking about it right.

It's not only a stronger intermediate shaft, it's also a solution to the front disconnect we have, and would essentially make our diff internally identical to more conventional front diff assemblies.

Anyone with a blown front disconnect should be interested in this solution.
8-) Build Thread | ExPo Build | YouTube Videos
Not all who wander are lost. -Tolkien
User avatar
Trail X
Founder
 
Posts: 9925
Joined: Mon Sep 07, 2009 10:22 pm
Location: VA, Roanoke
Name: James Downing
Vehicle Year: 2005
Vehicle: Chevrolet TrailBlazer
DriveTrain: 4WD w/ Aftermarket Locker
Rank: Expedition Guide

by OregTrailBlazin » Mon Nov 28, 2011 5:07 pm

fishsticks wrote:A stronger intermediate shaft is a good idea. But it doesn't cure the "What am I going to break next?" that's been inside my head for the last few months..


Uhh.. Classic grass is greener on the other side.. Everything you drive will have that problem, you will always push the limits of the rig especially in this type of wheeling. Trust me, its always the next hardest trail with everyone you've conquered.

But that being said, the grass is definitely a bit greener when you don't have to drive it to work the next day after wheeling. I chose #3 when it came down to it for me, but hope for the time when the TB is the #3 option.
Johnny Kurz
General Manager
541-474-2879
Wheeler's Off-Road Inc.
Our Vendor Section
User avatar
OregTrailBlazin
Off-Road Vendor
 
Posts: 610
Joined: Wed Sep 09, 2009 2:34 pm
Location: OR, Grants Pass
Name: Johnathan Kurz
Vehicle Year: 2004
Vehicle: Chevrolet TrailBlazer
DriveTrain: 4WD

by fishsticks » Mon Nov 28, 2011 5:15 pm

OregTrailBlazin wrote:
fishsticks wrote:A stronger intermediate shaft is a good idea. But it doesn't cure the "What am I going to break next?" that's been inside my head for the last few months..


Uhh.. Classic grass is greener on the other side.. Everything you drive will have that problem, you will always push the limits of the rig especially in this type of wheeling. Trust me, its always the next hardest trail with everyone you've conquered.

But that being said, the grass is definitely a bit greener when you don't have to drive it to work the next day after wheeling. I chose #3 when it came down to it for me, but hope for the time when the TB is the #3 option.



You're right. A lot of what is coming out right now is frustration. Of course you break stuff on whatever you play with. But yeah, much less stressful to snap an axle shaft and stick it in the driveway for a couple weeks until I feel like getting around to it.
11 Silverado LTZ - 6.2L/6l80, 2/3 drop, self tuned
85 Hilux - 3RZ, dual cases, caged, 40s, chromo everything
02 TrailBlazer LTZ - 35s, lockers, balls - Gone but not forgotten - Build
User avatar
fishsticks
Moderator
 
Posts: 4356
Joined: Thu Apr 01, 2010 11:30 pm
Location: WA, Vancouver
Name: Donny
Vehicle Year: Other
Vehicle: Other Vehicle
DriveTrain: 4WD w/ Aftermarket Locker
Rank: Extreme Offroader

by v7guy » Mon Nov 28, 2011 7:31 pm

fishsticks wrote:
fishsticks wrote:A stronger intermediate shaft is a good idea. But it doesn't cure the "What am I going to break next?" that's been inside my head for the last few months..


You're right. A lot of what is coming out right now is frustration. Of course you break stuff on whatever you play with. But yeah, much less stressful to snap an axle shaft and stick it in the driveway for a couple weeks until I feel like getting around to it.


That's always been my problem... knowing that you have to depend on a toy to get to work is never a good scenario.
Do you really think you're at that point? Are you really ready to give up?

how are the rest of us going to find out what breaks next if you move on? :raspberry:
build thread

All things in moderation, including moderation.
Some people never go crazy... what truly horrible lives they must lead
User avatar
v7guy
Moderator
 
Posts: 3712
Joined: Wed Mar 09, 2011 10:17 pm
Location: NY, long island
Name: Jason
Vehicle Year: 2004
Vehicle: Chevrolet TrailBlazer
DriveTrain: 4WD
Rank: Offroad Rated

by chevycrew » Mon Nov 28, 2011 7:55 pm

Yep I'm here, and ill help. Ill play with mine more once I get it fixed. I've logged 2000 miles on the sas, and about 750 of those are offroad. My biggest issue now I just need to get rif of the torque converter unlocking in overdrive.

I left the toyota thing to get a rig comfortable for 5 with good power. I loved my v8 85 runner, but I won't be going back to a toy...
User avatar
chevycrew
Veteran
 
Posts: 1088
Joined: Tue Mar 08, 2011 2:42 pm
Location: UT, Salt Lake City
Name: Steve
Vehicle Year: 2002
Vehicle: Chevrolet TrailBlazer
DriveTrain: 4WD
Rank: Trail Ready

by fishsticks » Mon Nov 28, 2011 8:11 pm

v7guy wrote:That's always been my problem... knowing that you have to depend on a toy to get to work is never a good scenario.
Do you really think you're at that point? Are you really ready to give up?

how are the rest of us going to find out what breaks next if you move on? :raspberry:



As I told James in PM, I'm not giving up on the platform. My wife has indicated that she will not be going near any new contraption I bring home, so if I want to wheel with the family, it will still be in the TB. That's not a bad thing, because the TB can easily do the "family friendly" stuff. Someone else gets to carry the torch of "pioneer of breakage" though.


chevycrew wrote:Yep I'm here, and ill help. Ill play with mine more once I get it fixed. I've logged 2000 miles on the sas, and about 750 of those are offroad. My biggest issue now I just need to get rif of the torque converter unlocking in overdrive.

I left the toyota thing to get a rig comfortable for 5 with good power. I loved my v8 85 runner, but I won't be going back to a toy...



Funny thing. I'm talking to a guy about trading the Camaro for a 350/350/208 SAS 1990 4Runner on 38s. Found him on CL last night. Still need to see the truck though.
11 Silverado LTZ - 6.2L/6l80, 2/3 drop, self tuned
85 Hilux - 3RZ, dual cases, caged, 40s, chromo everything
02 TrailBlazer LTZ - 35s, lockers, balls - Gone but not forgotten - Build
User avatar
fishsticks
Moderator
 
Posts: 4356
Joined: Thu Apr 01, 2010 11:30 pm
Location: WA, Vancouver
Name: Donny
Vehicle Year: Other
Vehicle: Other Vehicle
DriveTrain: 4WD w/ Aftermarket Locker
Rank: Extreme Offroader

by MrSmithsTB » Mon Nov 28, 2011 10:53 pm

Good luck with whatever option you choose. I have not had near the breakage that you, or many members have had. I do know that I would much rather have a dedicated wheeler and a dd. At the end of the day, it is only a truck. You've already pioneered a lot of the upgrades guys are using without question. Be happy with that and tame the truck down if that is what it takes to keep it on the road reliably.
back in the saddle
TB BUILD
User avatar
MrSmithsTB
Veteran
 
Posts: 1756
Joined: Thu Sep 10, 2009 2:28 pm
Location: EHT, NJ
Name: Bob
Vehicle Year: 2006
Vehicle: Other GMT360/370
DriveTrain: AWD w/ G80
Rank: Offroad Rated

by fishsticks » Mon Nov 28, 2011 11:27 pm

MrSmithsTB wrote:Good luck with whatever option you choose. I have not had near the breakage that you, or many members have had. I do know that I would much rather have a dedicated wheeler and a dd. At the end of the day, it is only a truck. You've already pioneered a lot of the upgrades guys are using without question. Be happy with that and tame the truck down if that is what it takes to keep it on the road reliably.



Thanks.

The truck, for all its breakages, has always been solid on road and even for most of the off road stuff. The breaking started awhile after my 35's went on. After getting comfortable at odd angles, I acquired a "Shit, I can get up that" attitude and in my quest to make good on my words I've hit the durability ceiling.
11 Silverado LTZ - 6.2L/6l80, 2/3 drop, self tuned
85 Hilux - 3RZ, dual cases, caged, 40s, chromo everything
02 TrailBlazer LTZ - 35s, lockers, balls - Gone but not forgotten - Build
User avatar
fishsticks
Moderator
 
Posts: 4356
Joined: Thu Apr 01, 2010 11:30 pm
Location: WA, Vancouver
Name: Donny
Vehicle Year: Other
Vehicle: Other Vehicle
DriveTrain: 4WD w/ Aftermarket Locker
Rank: Extreme Offroader

Next

Return to Lifts / Suspension