PLANNING: JD's 4 Corners Area Overland Tour

[Trail X]

This has been a long time coming, but as the time draws nearer I feel compelled to at least begin a planning thread to solicit ideas and suggestions from the members that are familiar with the areas.

The general layout of the trip is a 2 week jaunt from Maryland out to Colorado, Utah, and Arizona (maybe New Mexico for a minute).

Since this is an avec-wife trip, it won't be a purely camping trip. We'll spit our time between hotels and campsites. There's another key portion to the trip though - restaurants. We both enjoy little holes in the wall that have great food (we watch triple D when we can - for those in the know). So the information I'm trying to solicit are potential good camping spots - hotels - and diners/drive-ins/restaurants along the way.

The general plan is to speed out of the east along 64, then swap to 70 in St. Louis. We're hoping to make our way to Denver (maybe Estes Park) in two long days of tag-team driving. From there, Moab, White Rim, Zion, Grand Canyon, Navajo Nation, Alpine Loop, before returning to I-70. It's a bit of a stretch for two weeks, but I think it can be done with relative relaxation.

If anyone has any input on the plans - suggestions as to a route - places to stop - hotels - campsites - restaurants - tips... by all means, please share.

Below is a rough estimate of our route so far:



The thumbnails below represent glimpses of what we're hoping to see along the way.

B - Estes Park, CO (Trail ridge road)


C - Moab, UT (White Rim trail)


D - Zion NP


E - Grand Canyon (North Rim)


F - Monument Valley


G - Four Corners area (Mesa Verde)


H - Ouray, CO (Million dollar highway)


I - Lake City, CO (Engineer Pass)


J - Colorado Springs, CO



Bring on the suggestions!

[bgwolfpack]

Wow! That's one heck of a trip plan James.
I'll start out with this for you. A quote for teebes from me Sat Dec 05, 2009. "Remember if you come from the east, don't bi pass Vail on the way and also Central City and Black Hawk are up HWY 6 just out of Denver. Don't rush through Grand Junction either without checking out the Hot springs pool or the old whore houses down near the railroad tracks." Post subject: Re: SPECULATION: 2010 ORTB North America Meet? (edit of quote for proper grammar)

[The Roadie]

I see you're bypassing Montrose, site of my grenaded rear end. Good.

I would recommend staying off the divided highway after Moab. The more direct SW route to Zion goes by Bryce and Grand Staircase Escalante, and even if you don't go into Bryce, the scenery is still spectacular, and the smaller towns are full of character and history and non-chain places to eat.

I could be convinced to go to Moab or the GC North Rim again.

[Trail X]

Good idea about taking the route through Bryce, instead of the highway. My only caution was that I knew it was going to be a long drive as is though.

For the north rim of the grand canyon, I had considered two options... one was the Toroweap/Tuweep Area. Apparently some good camping there. Also a possibility was the North Rim lodge.

As for Moab, I think it will basically be a hotel stop on either side of the white rim excursion.

[Trail X]

Wow! That's one heck of a trip plan James.
I'll start out with this for you. A quote for teebes from me Sat Dec 05, 2009. "Remember if you come from the east, don't bi pass Vail on the way and also Central City and Black Hawk are up HWY 6 just out of Denver. Don't rush through Grand Junction either without checking out the Hot springs pool or the old whore houses down near the railroad tracks." Post subject: Re: SPECULATION: 2010 ORTB North America Meet? (edit of quote for proper grammar)

Care to go further into this suggestion? My parents were just in Vail, looked kinda like a tourist/ski trap. Sadly it looks like we'll also be north of 70 in that area, taking a back-country route from the very high altitude trail ridge road.

What's up with the whore houses? I'm not sure that's the kinda 'scenery' we're looking for.

[bartonmd]

So are you getting some new rubber, or are yours still expected to be doing fine at that time?

[Trail X]

It's on the to do list. Although, they still look pretty good for having over 50k miles on them - maybe 30% left. Might sell them for a small amount of cash when the time comes.

[bgwolfpack]

James, forget about the whore houses. They are just an interesting place to stay down by the railroad tracks there in town. In fact forget Grand Junction completely. Except maybe for the hot springs pool. It's kinda nice but stinky. Back east though north of 70/6 is 119 connecting to Central City Pkwy. This is a fabulous little couple of towns both primarily for gambling and old time cowboy ambiance. I spent quite a bit of time there a few years ago and will drive there again just for the atmosphere. Truth is you'll be pushing pretty hard for all of this in two weeks but you can't go wrong seeing this area of our country. Oh and Vail, just thinking of your bride and a needed spending spree.

It's also good to see you will be bypassing the Silverton and Durango area. The train ride there almost killed me with boredom twice. Each town though offers a great experience and taste of the old west life. Be careful and keep your head down in Silverton because you can get shot at there. Around noon I think.

I'm anxious for the Colorado boys to chime in. Again Wow! What a great trip! Do it while you don't have kids and do what you want!

[fishsticks]

Do we have some sort of disease in the PNW that the rest of the country isn't telling us about?

Everyone avoids us.

[Trail X]

Do we have some sort of disease in the PNW that the rest of the country isn't telling us about?

Everyone avoids us.

Hey now, I was in Seattle only a few years ago. The Olympic mountains and your pacific seashore are pretty awesome... however not feasible at the moment.

[fire_fighter4215]

You should defiantly stop by the little city that I used to live in Carbondale, Co. I see it on your map. Theres a awesome place to eat in the middle of that town called The Village Smithy. If you like pizza theres a place up the road that makes the best pizza called White House pizza. I lived there for a year and a half the city is at the base of a awesome mountain. I ventured up into the mountains a few times too do some really fun wheeling

[The Roadie]

As for Moab, I think it will basically be a hotel stop on either side of the white rim excursion.

I would have welcomed a motel. White Rim in one day is a LONG and exhausting drive.

[gotspeed1]

Looks like an awesome trip, James!! What time frame are you looking at to do this? I, for one, am glad to see that you've got Glenwood Springs on your map to drive through. It is an absolutely beautiful drive. I'd recommend by-passing Vail. There's not much to see there, unless you're into the whole yuppy culture. Do each of these dots on the map represent a place where you're going to spend a day? If so, when you get around Canon City, you may want to take Phantom Canyon road or Shelf road, and go up to Cripple Creek, It's an old mining town that is now full of gambling, but still has some of its culture. Check out the Molly Kathleen mine if you go, if you're into that kind of stuff. From there, it's about a hour to Colorado Springs. Don't forget about Pikes Peak when your there as well.

[djthumper]

Do we have some sort of disease in the PNW that the rest of the country isn't telling us about?

Everyone avoids us.

I was there last summer

[Trail X]

As for Moab, I think it will basically be a hotel stop on either side of the white rim excursion.

I would have welcomed a motel. White Rim in one day is a LONG and exhausting drive.

The plan will be to motel-it one night... then drive halfway on the white rim, camp, drive the rest back to Moab, then motel-it again. Everything I read suggested to take the white rim slow and enjoy it.

Looks like an awesome trip, James!! What time frame are you looking at to do this? I, for one, am glad to see that you've got Glenwood Springs on your map to drive through. It is an absolutely beautiful drive. I'd recommend by-passing Vail. There's not much to see there, unless you're into the whole yuppy culture. Do each of these dots on the map represent a place where you're going to spend a day? If so, when you get around Canon City, you may want to take Phantom Canyon road or Shelf road, and go up to Cripple Creek, It's an old mining town that is now full of gambling, but still has some of its culture. Check out the Molly Kathleen mine if you go, if you're into that kind of stuff. From there, it's about a hour to Colorado Springs. Don't forget about Pikes Peak when your there as well.

Timeframe is early fall. Most likely leaving Sept 23 or Sept 30. We're hoping to celebrate our two year anniversary during the trip. I'm crossing my fingers that everything will fall in line for those dates. A lot of "ifs".

Other than scenery, any suggestions for Glenwood Springs? It might be a good lunch spot for us.

Essentially each dot represents where we'll be spending a night or two. It's still rather rough, but those are the places that were of particular interest to us. If you have a suggestion of a spot we can't miss, I'm still in 'research' mode. I've considered spending less time in Zion possibly... but the pictures I've seen keep drawing me back in.

Are you much familliar with the area around the alpine loop? We are highly considering taking the engineer pass up to Oh point. From what I can tell, it appears absolutely spectacular.

Pikes peak - for some reason I got the impression it was another sort of touristy trap area. Maybe I should look into it again. I was trying to stay away from dead-end drives for the most part (which I assume pike's peak is). I wanted to ensure I was always moving forward (except maybe the Grand canyon stop).

Thanks for the insight!

[The Roadie]

Camping ON the White Rim trail can be a real challenge with typical equipment, since the winds can be intense and stuff blows away. A RTT is the best kit to use. And after I drove it and looked at each of the campsites (which are still relatively expensive and difficult to reserve), I see very little purpose to camping ON it. I would drive it again in a day, so as to not miss Arches NP if you're only spending two days in the area. Greg and I can put together a highlights list of stuff not to miss, since I think we've spent a total of 7-8 days out there.

[gotspeed1]

Understandable about Pikes Peak. It is a one way up and down road. Definitely not a must see, but kind of cool to go to. If you decide against Pikes Peak, but decide to take Phantom Canyon or Shelf Road, you can catch Gold Camp Road at Victor, CO, and that will take you to the south side of Colorado Springs.
I haven't been off of the "beaten" path through Glenwood Canyon into Glenwood Springs, but I-70 through Glenwood Canyon is just amazing!! My boss did the blasting cut through there to get I-70 in (way back in the day). The amount of engineering and work that went into getting the interstate into the bottom of the canyon is remarkable. I believe there are pull offs along the interstate to stop off and have lunch.
You may want to take into consideration the possibility of adverse weather. I know you'll be completely prepared, but I figured I'd remind you of the chance of snow. Last year in Cripple Creek (10,000' elevation), we had one hell of a snowstorm at the beginning of October, and the same this year in Leadville (10,500' elevation). I'm not sure what elevations you will be getting to, but I'm pretty sure Estes Park is roughly the same, if not higher (especially Trail Ridge). Just a heads up.

[Trail X]

Camping ON the White Rim trail can be a real challenge with typical equipment, since the winds can be intense and stuff blows away. A RTT is the best kit to use. And after I drove it and looked at each of the campsites (which are still relatively expensive and difficult to reserve), I see very little purpose to camping ON it. I would drive it again in a day, so as to not miss Arches NP if you're only spending two days in the area. Greg and I can put together a highlights list of stuff not to miss, since I think we've spent a total of 7-8 days out there.

I've got some equipment upgrades coming down the pipe... just a matter of time. As for reserving campsites, my understanding is that it's just $30 to reserve one.
Yeah, Arches was a quandary to me... should we try to fit it in or not... I decided to bypass it. Our theory on this trip is to try to get as many regions as possible, so we know where we will want to head again in the future, maybe for a more detailed stay. One of my main goals from the start of this was, however, to watch the sun set in the Island in the sky. I can't imagine doing so without camping. I'd still like to hear your highlight list of the area.

Understandable about Pikes Peak. It is a one way up and down road. Definitely not a must see, but kind of cool to go to. If you decide against Pikes Peak, but decide to take Phantom Canyon or Shelf Road, you can catch Gold Camp Road at Victor, CO, and that will take you to the south side of Colorado Springs.
I haven't been off of the "beaten" path through Glenwood Canyon into Glenwood Springs, but I-70 through Glenwood Canyon is just amazing!! My boss did the blasting cut through there to get I-70 in (way back in the day). The amount of engineering and work that went into getting the interstate into the bottom of the canyon is remarkable. I believe there are pull offs along the interstate to stop off and have lunch.
You may want to take into consideration the possibility of adverse weather. I know you'll be completely prepared, but I figured I'd remind you of the chance of snow. Last year in Cripple Creek (10,000' elevation), we had one hell of a snowstorm at the beginning of October, and the same this year in Leadville (10,500' elevation). I'm not sure what elevations you will be getting to, but I'm pretty sure Estes Park is roughly the same, if not higher (especially Trail Ridge). Just a heads up.

Good point about snow. We were timing the trip around this time because I think it will keep us out of the desert heat, and out of most of the snow. But you make a good point, that the snow above 10,000 ft is very unpredictable. I beleive engineer pass is 12,800 and trail ridge is 12,183. Thanks for the heads up about Glenwood Canyon, I'm looking forward to that portion of the drive. Might have to plan a little picnic or something. I'll have to do some research on phantom canyon and shelf road. We may have some extra time during that leg of the trip.

[dirty anton]

colorado is simply amazing! your gonna love it. bring plenty of saline (nasal),the 5 days i was there my sinuses dried up so bad i was snortin that stuff every few minutes! the locals said it was normal for some people from out of the area to have this reaction. warning......you may want to move there after your trip! its awesome!

[Regulator1175]

On your return trip I would suggest turning north in Salida between I and J and running north to 70 that way. I grew up in Buena Vista, just north of Salida, and I think that drive along the Arkansas between Salida and Leadville has to be one of the most beautiful drives in the area.