front disconnect replacement?

[Wyle]

Found a lot of play where the passenger front axle goes into the disconnect. Pulled the axle out temporarily until I had time to get into the disconnect. I did see fragment evidence that there was once an axle bearing in the disconnect at one time. Found a spray paint cap that worked great as a dust cap while the axle was out.

So today I pulled the disconnect apart (after reading James's great how-to on operation and rebuilding. I already had all new seals, bearings and two of the three thrust washers in hand to do the rebuild. Now I'm seriously wondering if I should bag the rebuild and go with an ATP or junkyard unit.

What I didn't find ...
any of the rollers from the axle and outer gear bearings
much of anything that actually resembled grease. Most was the consistincy of hard wax.

What I did find ...
decent sized wear grooves in the bearing surface of the outer gear
very worn outer and inner thrust washers (middle one looked pretty good)
a cupped outter thrust washer (as in no longer flat)
an actuator fork with rather worn ends
a new "taper" on the outer third of the axle bearing race
an outer housing with no bosses to stop the thrust washer from spinning

a couple pics ...
new outer thrust washer and footprints of old bosses to stop it from spinning (??)


worn end of fork (should be full size rectangle)


I mentioned that the outer thrust washer was cupped. Whether it spins or not, it is cupped to a nice fit to match the inside of the housing. If I install a new thrust washer, I'm afraid it will only be riding on the outer edge of the washer and if it spins, it will start milling a pocket in the housing.

When I dry fit things back together with the old parts, the two gears could separate enough for the middle thrust washer to slip out of its little pocket between the gears. With two new thrust washers and flipping the inner one around (worn pocket toward housing), things stayed in place. For now, I greased it all up and put it together that way - with a new bearing pressed in for the outer gear. At least the inner gear and bearing are supporting the intermediate shaft. The outer gear is just a little sloppy in the new bearing, but it shouldn't be spinning. Actually the viscousity of the grease could cause it to spin, but the collar won't be engaging and driving it. Passenger axle not installed.

So back to my questions.
Will a "spinable" outer thrust washer be a problem?
Will a axle bearing be sufficiently supported on the inner 2/3 of the race (since the outer third isn't a tight fit to the bearing anymore)?
Is this worth rebuilding since a new outer gear is $87, a new fork is $50 and new seals are $40ish?

On a good note; the disconnect came out with just some hand wiggling and went back in the same way. No PBlaster. No prying. No hammering. No broken case.

[DirtyBacon04]

just get the ATP 11102 AWD disconnect. Better durability, less parts.

[Trail X]

Ooh, yeah yours is/was in pretty bad shape.

Do what I did, and it should last at least another year or so... take a small cylinder of plastic or metal, maybe 5/8" diameter and 3/4-7/8" long (dimensions estimated) and take your electronic actuator off. Place the cylinder in the hole in the fork. Jam electronic actuator back in place, and secure with screws.

Done.

If you're asking what the heck I just did - you've effectively locked your front end up permanently. The ring gear is now in place to better support the outer gear and share the load with the inner-most bearing. I figure I'll need a new one soon, but it's worked so far for about a year and a half. And my disconnect wasn't in much better condition the second time I rebuilt mine.

I really would like to work on a gear-oil conversion to a good condition disconnect.

[Wyle]

So the consensus is an AWD mode. Doesn't that sacrifice mpg and cause additional wear inside the transfer case (with the front prop shaft always spinning) to save the disconnect?

James: I realized what you were achieving.
Does that cause problems for the actuator motor when it tries to "engage" (A4WD, 4HI, 4LO) and cant move?
Doesn't that trigger a 4WD service light when it finds out it can't move?
For dry pavement running (95% of my use), wouldn't that be the same as leaving it in A4WD?

I take it the non-AWD ATP replacement has similar durability problems as the OEM since both solutions trade the "disconnect" functionality for AWD operation.

[Trail X]

No noticable mpg loss. Wears seals maybe a bit more, but less wear on the transfer case clutch plates.

Yes, it does throw a service light, but it doesn't stop the case motor from doing it's job.

The difference between A4WD and having the front end connected is that with the 'fix' in place there is still no power being transmitted to the front tires. In A4WD mode, there is a small amount of torque transmitted to the front tires at all times, and when it senses slip, the transfer case experiences high loads as it applies full torque.

[robdiller]

Ok guys i have two of these break on my tb in last two weeks, The outer housing breaks at the point where the enters. Has anyone else had this problem. The second one I installed was brand new.

[DirtyBacon04]

2 disco's broken in 2 weeks?! There is faulty something somewhere. Whether it be parts or labor, something went wrong. We can't really tell you more unless you disassemble and take more photos, how you were driving, were in you 4x4 all the time, were you wheeling when it happened, etc. For some reason, I'm getting the vibe that the cv shaft may not have been inserted all the way. Were you feeling a strange vibration leading to breakage, or was it an "all of the sudden" ordeal?

[robdiller]

I don't really want to take the second one apart, trying to get warranty repair on it.

The second never saw the dirt, no vibration, the only way I knew something was wrong. I drove past a fence with my windows down and heard a small clinging noise, looked underneath and snap. I will try to get some pics up today. these were taken with my phone while I was taking it off. When I put the second one on I had a 4mpg increase I put on a bunch of highway miles. The only time the 4wheel was engaged was when I first installed it to make sure it worked. I will take pictures of the first on in pieces for analysis.

[DirtyBacon04]

are there any fragments in the housing? I'm guessing the sleeve is toast. Yours is in much better shape than mine was.
Somethin ain't addin up for me. The passenger cv and the intermediate shaft obviously aren't married in 2hi. I'm thinkin maybe when you switched it back from 4hi, the syncro fork didnt retract fully and remained partially engaged. Did you replace the actuator with the first one or is it still the original?

[Trail X]

How much lift is on that truck? The only potential issue I'm seeing is that you have too much and the tripod joint is beyond max angle. Otherwise there shouldn't be any stress in that direction on the housing.

[DirtyBacon04]

the way mine broke was the gears inside got shredded and eventually jammed in between the cv and I shaft eventually causing the outer casing to "open up".

[The Roadie]

Same question as JD. Your first post said 3" lift in front. Was it Mark's inside the strut unit, or one of the outside the strut spacers that are safe for 2WD only, for exactly this reason?

[DirtyBacon04]

uh oh, this peaked Bill's interest... Prepare for lashings if you have that outside the strut lift...

[robdiller]

let the lashing begin then, I have the readylift.

The gears were fine, The first one was orginal.

I put the lift on in late October. I didn't have any issues until now. Maybe its time to upgrade the lift I guess.

[The Roadie]

Readylift *might* work if you check for CV binding at full extension. Mostly, my experience is that they bind. Good for the mall if you never extend it fully. Maybe you didn't run it hard until recently? Maybe you got CV binding and now your inner joint is damaged?

Why did you say you had 3" in front, though, in your first post? The Readylift says it gives 2" of lift, and their spacer is just under 1.5" thick. You didn't stack anything on top of the Readylift, did you?

[robdiller]

my spacer is 2" and it gave me 3 inches of lift in the front.

I drove it hard over the winter during hunting season.

[Trail X]

Readylift *might* work if you check for CV binding at full extension. Mostly, my experience is that they bind.

Motor mounts may have a lot to do with how much angle we can get without issue. Newer, less deflated mounts make a big difference and will reduce available extension length.

let the lashing begin then, I have the readylift.

I put the lift on in late October. I didn't have any issues until now. Maybe its time to upgrade the lift I guess.

Maybe you didn't run it hard until recently? Maybe you got CV binding and now your inner joint is damaged?

The timing could be due to mechanical fatigue. The original housing is pretty stout, but over time, the jarring effects of the tripod hitting max extension could have created a crack.

Assuming you went with an ATP replacement, they probably used a lower Chinese grade cast aluminum, which saved them money, but probably does not have the same mechanical properties as the original part (made by AAM I think?).

[robdiller]

Ok, I got the replacement part from rockauto, and new cv's.

While I was installing them I was looking around for any binding issues. With the front fully extended when i turn the passanger side tire i feel no binding, smooth rotation. when I turn the drivers side wheel, there is some slight binding and it causes the engine and transmission to "kick" about a 1/2" and the front drive shaft turns. As I jack up the driver's side wheel the "binding" decreases as well as the "kick". with weigh on the wheels and driving there is no noticeable "kick" in the engine and the drive shaft does not turn.

I'm thinking there is an issue inside my front diff.

with all of this "kicking" I could see how the weakest point in this could give, causing the disconnect to break.

Also one side of the fork was broken off on the second disconnect, the disconnects from rockauto are made by ATP.

I ordered marks 3" lift and will get it installed as soon as it arrives.

[Trail X]

You may indeed have an issue inside your diff, but its as a result of the 'kick'. The kick is due to the tripod joint being rotated beyond it's range of motion. If your driver tire is binding, your pass tire is likely very close to binding too. Any misalignment when you installed the last one might have put it past the limit, but misalignment would be hard to do. The new cv shaft may also have slightly different tripod geometry, which may lead it to not bind now. I still think that was your root source of the failure.

[DirtyBacon04]

You may indeed have an issue inside your diff, but its as a result of the 'kick'. The kick is due to the tripod joint being rotated beyond it's range of motion. If your driver tire is binding, your pass tire is likely very close to binding too. Any misalignment when you installed the last one might have put it past the limit, but misalignment would be hard to do. The new cv shaft may also have slightly different tripod geometry, which may lead it to not bind now. I still think that was your root source of the failure.

Your whole assy is extends too low, maxing out your cv. Bad joo-joo on a trail. I think most on here would agree that if your replace your spacer with an "inside the strut" one, you'll be much better off. Make sure you get an alignment afterwards, though.