4Wd Disconnect Rebuilt Succesfully, then 4WD Stopped Working

[Trail X]

Have you ran through the diagnostic routine to identify what isn't working properly?

[arl120384]

Not yet, girlfriend has the car, but I am going to go through the flow chart again to pin point it, just covering all my bases if I need them.

[arl120384]

Ok guys, I have had a chance to run some tests, and go through the flow chart again, and this is what I have come up with.

The chart points to the transfer case. With 4HI engaged and the passenger wheel off the ground, the front wheel rotates freely, and the prop shaft spins. The motor on the transfer case, and the front actuator all appear to be working. However there's more...

When the front axle/tire is spinning, there is a light clicking sound, commensurate with the speed of the tire. With 4WD off, this goes away. I took off the front actuator, and it cycled and appears to work. I manually worked the fork, and it only seemed to give me about 1/4" of play, and while I was holding the fork in, spinning the tire, I received the same clicking. I gave it a pretty good push, and no engagement. This leads me to believe that for some reason, the collar gear is not engaging over the inner gear and locking the front end up, I believe it's stopping short, and barely touching, thus the clicking sound of the gears. However there's more...

A few months ago while getting my new tires, I was looking at the front tires from the back, and I noticed that the front passenger side tire stuck out about 1/4"-1/2" further than the drivers side. at the time I thought nothing of it. Thinking about it now, I am wondering if when I rebuilt the disconnect, the front axle didn't seat all the way in the disconnect assembly. It seems logical, however you guys have more knowledge of this than me. Could this be a simple, take a sledge hammer to the axle and seat it, or does it require the assembly to be torn down?

That's my story, thanks for the help in advance.


Alex

[bdp1978]

Could this be a simple, take a sledge hammer to the axle and seat it, or does it require the assembly to be torn down?


Alex

Dont take this the wrong way.....but you had enough knowledge to rebuild your disconnect and you're seriously asking the above question???

[bdp1978]

The wheel seats against the hub/wheel bearing, not the axle. The only concievable way the tire could be out further would be stemming from the hub, the axle goes through the middle of the hub. The tires moving doesnt make any sense as it's a fixed position from the control arms.

[Mudwheelin]

I don't think that's your problem. 1\2” is a lot to have missed when you were putting it back together. I don't think wacking it is going to help. It looks like your going to have to take it apart and really check things over and put it back together again. When I did mine a month ago everything went back together nicely.

[arl120384]

Could this be a simple, take a sledge hammer to the axle and seat it, or does it require the assembly to be torn down?


Alex

Dont take this the wrong way.....but you had enough knowledge to rebuild your disconnect and you're seriously asking the above question???

Well I wasn't being literal!

[arl120384]

I don't think that's your problem. 1\2” is a lot to have missed when you were putting it back together. I don't think wacking it is going to help. It looks like your going to have to take it apart and really check things over and put it back together again. When I did mine a month ago everything went back together nicely.

Ok. I wonder if this issue is related to the initial rubbing sounds in the first post. Any idea if this fix can wait until spring? I'm currently in New England with no garage...

[Trail X]

It's never simple is it...

Well first, if you are in 4WD, your front prop shaft should not be able to spin independently of the rear prop shaft.

First, lets make sure you properly identified the prop shaft (some people think the prop shaft is the CV shaft). Not knowing your level of knowledge, I have to ask this.

If your front prop shaft is indeed able to spin independent of the rear prop shaft while you are locked into 4WD, then you have an issue in your transfer case.

The fork does take a bit of effort to push in (depending on grease condition inside). By lifting the passenger side tire, THEN sticking it into 4WD, you may be able to hear it "snap" into place when you turn the tire slightly. If you hear it click into place, you may be good up there.

Is there any play when you grab the tripod housing and give it a shake? There shouldn't be much movement.

Your tire position is not determined at all by the location of your CV shaft. So even if your CV shaft wasn't seated properly, it would not affect the tire location. Most likely the body is slightly off on the frame, or your fender is bent a bit.

For reference, here's what we call the prop shafts... just to clear up any possible confusion (don't worry I often worry about people misunderstanding what I call the prop shaft).

[arl120384]

You are indeed correct JD, and I misunderstood the prop shaft for the CV shaft. I often scratched my head and thought I was wrong, because the CV shaft should always spin with the tire. I was wrong, and I'll have to re-check this with the proper knowledge.

I do know that the front wheels spin independently of each other while in 4HI. The grease condition in the disconnect is great, as it is all new. I was trying to manually engage it while I had the actuator off, and the switch in 4HI. All I got was a little bit of clicking, which sounded just short of the collar gear engaging in the disconnect. The actuator sounded like it was under a lot less stress while off the disconnect.

[arl120384]

I'm just trying to figure out what changed since I rebuilt it, and I tested it and it worked....

[Trail X]

The forks have been known to fail in ways that prevent the fork from traveling inward. Have you engaged 4WD much since you rebuilt it? Do you ever engage it at high speeds (faster than 10 mph)?

[arl120384]

The forks have been known to fail in ways that prevent the fork from traveling inward. Have you engaged 4WD much since you rebuilt it? Do you ever engage it at high speeds (faster than 10 mph)?

No. The fork is new. I only engage it in N, while rolling about 5 MPH. I only engaged it once after I rebuilt it, then when I went to engage it again to work the system (the 2nd time since rebuild), that's when I noticed it wasn't working. If I can discern it is indeed the disconnect, I will just get the sleeve and be done.

[Trail X]

How long ago was it rebuilt? I ask again, is there any play between the tripod housing and disconnect? Play between those components leads to misalignment of the gears, which leads to the collar having trouble engaging the inner gear.

[arl120384]

How long ago was it rebuilt? I ask again, is there any play between the tripod housing and disconnect? Play between those components leads to misalignment of the gears, which leads to the collar having trouble engaging the inner gear.

It was rebuilt at the end of October. I just re-checked the tripod housing, and there seems to be normal play (1/32", maybe). Not nearly as loose as it was pre-rebuild.

[arl120384]

I just had a thought, and I am trying to plan ahead if I want to go the sleeve route without disassembling first. If I run the flow chart again, I can assume this will occur, given my tests from today. The passenger wheel will rotate, as well as the drivers side. The TC will lock the front prop shaft, so this should lock up, correct? If the disco isn't engaging, will the drivers side wheel engage (not move when lifted) if everything else is working?

As of now both front wheels move freely, so I am trying to see if the disco is acting up, if the drivers side should still turn or not.

Thanks

[Trail X]

To explain this, you must understand the operation of an open differential. Look it up.

With only the driver side tire in the air, 4WD engaged, disconnect not operational, the driver tire will still be able to rotate, because the differential is transferring torque to the intermediate shaft (between the front diff and the splined disconnect) which rotates backwards because the disconnect did not lock up.

With only the driver side tire in the air, 4WD engaged, disconnect operational, and transfer case non-operational, the driver side tire will still be able to rotate because the differential transferring torque to the front prop shaft which can rotate because the transfer case did not lock up.

Only if both the disconnect and transfer case are operational (and the differential is functioning properly), then the drivers side tire will not rotate when lifted.

[arl120384]

To explain this, you must understand the operation of an open differential. Look it up.

With only the driver side tire in the air, 4WD engaged, disconnect not operational, the driver tire will still be able to rotate, because the differential is transferring torque to the intermediate shaft (between the front diff and the splined disconnect) which rotates backwards because the disconnect did not lock up.

With only the driver side tire in the air, 4WD engaged, disconnect operational, and transfer case non-operational, the driver side tire will still be able to rotate because the differential transferring torque to the front prop shaft which can rotate because the transfer case did not lock up.

Only if both the disconnect and transfer case are operational (and the differential is functioning properly), then the drivers side tire will not rotate when lifted.

Ok, thanks JD. I wasn't sure if the drivers side tire should be spinning, got it now. So with that being said, I know the disco isn't locking, so I think I'll start there and work back. Sleeve time.

[Trail X]

Just to confirm, the prop shaft is not spinning with either front tires?

[arl120384]

Ok here's a good update. I lifted the truck up again, and was able to fiddle with the tripod housing while spinning the tire. It locked in, and everything seems to be working well. The front prop-shaft is engaged, as well as the front end. It seems that the reason it worked right after I re-built it, was because that was pre-lift, and bigger tires. When I tried to work it when it failed, it was after I had lifted etc. I think that the lift is just a bit too much of an angle for those gears to align. I unplugged the actuator so the front is always engaged, until I can order the sleeve.

Regarding the sleeve....What types of stresses will be on the sleeve with the lift installed? If the gears don't line up now, I am wondering what type of mis-alignment will transfer to the sleeve, and if there will be a bending force on it.

Thank you everyone for your help!