Offroad Trailblazers and Envoys

Finally created an account/proper introduction

New members: please introduce yourself here.

by joemoto311 » Fri May 12, 2017 6:06 am

My name is Joe and I own a 2004 GMC ENVOY SLT and is daily driven in Virginia Beach, Virginia. Bought the vehicle stock back in 2008 with 30k miles. I lowered it first on 22s now I'm lifted on 35s. I am a Marine Veteran and I work as an electrical instrumentation specialist or field engineer, whichever you prefer. I'm mechanically inclined and do all my own work. Most recent repair work was rebuilding the valvebody in my transmission and replacing stock servos with a vette and billet superhold. I've been a member on other forums but just finally joined this one because I am starting to really enjoy the envoy as it was meant to be. Since I have owned the envoy, I have been actively hidden on the forums. Even though I never joined this one, I searched for things here. Most of the members that I have taken advice from or learned something from are actually on this forum. Thanks for all of your help and I look forward to getting a chance to meeting some of you on the trails. I will start my build thread.
Last edited by joemoto311 on Mon Jul 03, 2017 6:59 am, edited 3 times in total.
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joemoto311
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Posts: 15
Joined: Mon May 08, 2017 12:42 pm
Location: Virginia Beach
Name: Joe
Vehicle Year: 2004
Vehicle: GMC Envoy
DriveTrain: 4WD w/ G80

by HawkeyeC25 » Fri May 12, 2017 11:31 am

WOW!! Long winded :) But great post. And Welcome! Looks like you have a great plan for your new lifted setup. I recently found that the Radflo's have a slightly shorter full extension length than stock shocks, so you can actually put MarkMC's 0.5" top spacer above your Radflo's and get the stock droop back (might even be a hair more than stock). I have done this with no issues of CV binding (there's a post somewhere around here of when I first looked into it).
Can't wait to see your project come together. Post Pics!!
PS. Thanks for serving!
2005 Trailblazer EXT LT V8 Lifted
Build Thread
There are 10 types of people in this world, those who understand binary and those who don't.
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HawkeyeC25
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by joemoto311 » Sun May 14, 2017 2:05 pm

Yes it was. I was trying to get the formalities out of the way so members, if they actually read this, know me better than just a random person all of a sudden posting and asking questions. I know I destroyed the English language in that ramble.

Thanks for the info. I do actually remember you discussing that and speaking with radflo directly about stops. I know it's trail proven by now. It's been awhile I believe since you posted it. It all makes sense and it's great advice. I will contact Mark and order that. I was concerned about the perch but i guess in reality in you as long as you subtract that it would be no different. I'm assuming you had it at 3.5 before? I see 4.5 of suspension lift so I'm a not sure how exactly that's calculated. I thought I read about 4 inches was about the max you wanted to do in the I front suspension wise. Also that the stock setup with away I removed would actually articulate too far. Forgot where I read that..it might of been in your post about doing this. I read quite a bit of threads and builds. Il ask other questions in the proper spot.



Awesome signature btw and tough build.
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joemoto311
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Joined: Mon May 08, 2017 12:42 pm
Location: Virginia Beach
Name: Joe
Vehicle Year: 2004
Vehicle: GMC Envoy
DriveTrain: 4WD w/ G80

by galio839 » Sun May 28, 2017 8:11 am

Woah, now that's a huge wall of text. Maybe you could format it a little bit, if you do not mind :D welcome to the forums anyway!
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by HARDTRAILZ » Thu Jun 15, 2017 2:51 pm

Welcome to the fray
I hate to advocate weird chemicals, alcohol, violence or insanity to anyone...but
they've always worked for me.
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by Trail X » Fri Jun 16, 2017 1:35 pm

Glad you're joining the dark side.

joemoto311 wrote:I can't finish my list until I iron out a few questions about the TREs/bushings/endlinks/rear shock relocation/possibly ball joints(I know someone on here running hds but I believe he was running his own UCA but I couldn't validate that).


So what are your questions?
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by joemoto311 » Mon Jul 03, 2017 7:15 am

galio839 wrote:Woah, now that's a huge wall of text. Maybe you could format it a little bit, if you do not mind :D welcome to the forums anyway!



Done.....I didn't even read it. Say no to crack


Trail X wrote:Glad you're joining the dark side.

joemoto311 wrote:I can't finish my list until I iron out a few questions about the TREs/bushings/endlinks/rear shock relocation/possibly ball joints(I know someone on here running hds but I believe he was running his own UCA but I couldn't validate that).


So what are your questions?


Kyle, Mark, and Mike have all been a huge help so far. I actually got the lift done over the weekend and couldn't be happier! I still have the rear to put in. The rear I got needs new backing plates so I'd rather mess with it off the vehicle and get it cleaned up and serviced before I put it in. I am also going to just pay a shop to go through the front diff I picked up as well. With the PITA it looks like it is to get out, I'm just not taking any chances with it.
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joemoto311
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Joined: Mon May 08, 2017 12:42 pm
Location: Virginia Beach
Name: Joe
Vehicle Year: 2004
Vehicle: GMC Envoy
DriveTrain: 4WD w/ G80

by joemoto311 » Mon Jul 03, 2017 1:14 pm

I actually do have a question and I really don't know where I would post it anyways. When going from stock to bigger tires and changing gear ratio, do shift points change? It does have a tune but I am curious on how the PCM handles the shift points themselves. I have a dakota digital sgi-5e to install but I do not know whether install it off the VSS high or the output to the cluster. Putting it in front of the PCM should adjust shift points back to the correct spot but I do not know what else is in the equation for that......and is it really even something that is going to be a problem? Went up to 35" tires and gearing change will be 3.42 to 4.10. Below are some of the emails I sent to calibration places and dakota digital. Thanks.
.................................................
Joseph,

I’m going to get the opinion of a certain engineer. He’s out for vacation right now when he gets back and responds I’ll let you know what he thinks.

Wes Case
Dakota Digital


www.dakotadigital.com


From: Laughlin, Joseph
Sent: Monday, July 03, 2017 11:10 AM
To: Wes Case <>
Subject: RE: SGI-5E Universal Signal Interface Unit

So is the low signal input just the ground? So from what I understand, is the only wire I need to cut is C2 Pin 10 purple/white and put the SGI-5 E in between? I believe the attached picture is correct for an 04 envoy. From what I have read a few splice into the VSS high in to the PCM and others in to the PCM output to the cluster. Not exactly sure which one I should do because both ways some have had issues. It could just be them. I would assume the high vss is coming from the back only and wouldn’t calculate correctly in 4wd? How much do the ABS sensors play in this? I will be doing a gear change in a month or so once I find time to swap the rear so I really am unsure how I should go about this because I will have to recalibrate it again and don't know how it will effect shift points. The rear is from an 02-05 so the ABS will be the same.

Joe Laughlin
Electrical Instrumentation Specialist
“Once a Marine, Always a Marine”


From: Wes Case
Sent: Wednesday, June 28, 2017 8:55 AM
To: Laughlin, Joseph
Subject: RE: SGI-5E Universal Signal Interface Unit

Joe,

I think the SGI-5E will work. The speedo and odometer could be fed by different Vss signals from the PCM. If you use the SGI-5E to modify the Vss high signal before it goes into the PCM then I think it should do the trick. I think why the others have failed is if they are modifying settings after the PCM has read the signal. If you correct the signal before the PCM then it shouldn’t know any difference and work correctly.

Wes Case
Dakota Digital


From: Laughlin, Joseph
Sent: Wednesday, June 28, 2017 5:25 AM
To: TechSupport <techsupport@dakotadigital.com>
Subject: SGI-5E Universal Signal Interface Unit

I own a 2004 GMC Envoy I6. In HPT, you can access wheel size, VSS, trans RPM. The problem is, even if you change any of these parameters, the PCM doesn’t calculate the % difference. My vehicle is tuned and the PCM is unlocked but I guess every tune program has the same issue….Now few did successfully get the MPH to reflect correct. I’m not sure how they got it to take but even HPT themselves said it can’t be done. I would prefer not to deal with a dealership and I still plan for another gear change that isn’t supported in the PCM and not a factory option. My question is will your converter also make the appropriate changes to both the MPH and the ODOMETER as well as the shift points? Thanks!

Joe Laughlin
Electrical Instrumentation Specialist

“Once a Marine, Always a Marine”
.....................................................................................

Heres emails from a calibration shop

Tapping the output after the PCM would change the signals going to the cluster after all calculations are done by the computer and sensors and is where I would try first As long as your computer isn't doing a sin wave to square wave conversion at the PCM, then that would be the best place to do it. If you go that route and have issues with readings or it starts acting weird, tapping the vss out line from the transmission would be my next recommendation to try. The wiring systems vary wildly on these vehicles year to year so it almost always ends up being trial and error on where to splice the line.
Joe Butera
Beach Calibration


On Jul 3, 2017 12:06 PM, "Laughlin, Joseph" <> wrote:
Everything works fine its just off. I haven’t done anything to mine, its just from what I have read from other peoples experience in the 02-05 models. Some splice into the VSS high in to the PCM and others in to the PCM output to the cluster. Not exactly sure which one I should do because both ways some have had issues. I would assume the high vss is coming from the back only and wouldn’t calculate correctly in 4wd? Dakota digital hasn’t replied really and their instructions are so basic it really doesn’t help from the vehicle side. The device is fairly simple. It’s the vehicle that’s stupid.

Joe Laughlin
Electrical Instrumentation Specialist
“Once a Marine, Always a Marine”


From: Joe Butera []
Sent: Monday, July 03, 2017 11:55 AM
To: Laughlin, Joseph
Subject: RE: 2004 GMC Envoy

There are known issues with the instrument cluster on those model year vehicles. If your speedometer is jumping or acting erratic in any ie. Bouncing, not moving smoothly or jittering, or getting stuck at random intervals, you will need to replace the stepper motors in the instrument cluster as well.
Joe Butera
Beach Calibration

-----Original Message-----
From: Joe Butera []
Sent: Thursday, June 29, 2017 10:56 AM
To: Laughlin, Joseph
Subject: RE: 2004 GMC Envoy

Hi Joseph,

I was just reviewing our conversation and noticed that you had said that someone managed to change your speedometer readings and the odometer continued to be off. A ratio adapter box like the sgi-5 will change the readings for both the speedometer and odometer as they should be working hand in hand. They both receive signal from the same sensors and same bus on the PCM. The only place they separate is in the cluster itself. Prior to the installation of one of these adapters, I recommend reversing the modifications that have been done and getting a fresh accuracy measurement.
The best way to get a measurement for one of these boxes is to use a GPS or any other distance measuring device that calculates distance to the 1/100 of a mile and drive exactly one mile on the vehicle odometer. The total distance traveled on the other device will be your ratio that would get programmed into the adapter to set everything correctly.


Joe Butera
Beach Calibration



-----Original Message-----
From: Laughlin, Joseph []
Sent: Wednesday, June 28, 2017 8:32 AM
To: Joe Butera <>
Subject: Re: 2004 GMC Envoy

Thank you sir

Sent from my Verizon Wireless 4G LTE DROID


Joe Butera <> wrote:

Dakota digital sgi-5 is one brand of adapter that will do the job for you

Joe Butera
Beach Calibration

On Jun 28, 2017 7:36 AM, "Laughlin, Joseph" wrote:

Are you referring to something like a Dakota Digital SGI-5E? I ordered that but then canceled it. I didn't know if it would adjust the odometer as well. I was seeing if I could get the PCM itself changed but its still looking like I will need to add the convertor.



Joe Laughlin
Electrical Instrumentation Specialist
Atlantic Plant E&I Shop
"Once a Marine, Always a Marine"





From: Joe Butera []
Sent: Wednesday, June 28, 2017 7:22 AM
To: Laughlin, Joseph
Subject: Re: 2004 GMC Envoy



An aftermarket electronic ratio adapter can be installed to modify the VSS signal prior to reaching the PCM which will change how the speedometer/odometer read. We do not do the installs in house, but have a shop down the road that can install these parts once the correct ratio is known. Give me a call anytime today after 9AM at the number below and I'd be glad to assist you in getting your issues taken care of.

Joe Butera
Beach Calibration




On Jun 28, 2017 6:41 AM, "Laughlin, Joseph"
wrote:

I own a 2004 GMC Envoy I6. Apparently GM had another terrific idea with the
I6 gmt360s from 02-05. It is a class2 bus but for some reason GM didn't put in the conversion or something that interfaces with the speedo and odometer(problems with ABS happen occasionally). In HPT, you can access wheel size, VSS, trans RPM. The problem is, you can change the wheel size and it does visually but the PCM doesn't do any adjustment calculations. You can physically go out and measure the rotational circumference and do the math to get the correct variable to put in the VSS/Trans RPM. Once again the PCM doesn't use the numbers and keeps the original but will show your change. My vehicle is tuned and the PCM is unlocked but I guess every tune program has the same issue..Do you use a tech 2 and are you able to make a wheel size change(not a factory size) and a gear ratio change(a ratio that GM uses and should have the selection)? Thanks


Joe Laughlin
Electrical Instrumentation Specialist
"Once a Marine, Always a Marine"
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joemoto311
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Location: Virginia Beach
Name: Joe
Vehicle Year: 2004
Vehicle: GMC Envoy
DriveTrain: 4WD w/ G80

by Trail X » Thu Jul 06, 2017 10:42 am

Shift points are largely based on a calculated level of demand on the engine, but otherwise I don't know much about it. As you go up in tire size, the LOD will increase on the engine, just like pulling a trailer - shift points change, but obviously the PCM doesn't know that the tires are larger. I don't think anyone's ever worried about adjusting the PCM for much other than just getting the speedometer correct and keeping the ABS from freaking out. Most of us just don't worry about it.
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