Offroad Trailblazers and Envoys

Front Diff swap

G80, GU6, GT4, GT5, WTF? This section is for gearing and driveline stuff.

by Skindiggers » Thu Feb 09, 2012 11:35 am

This is the future !
K1500 Transparent.jpg
K1500 Transparent.jpg (161.56 KiB) Viewed 18446 times


Unfortunately they make these axles only for K1500 and don't know if they will fit on our platform . The price is acceptable $495 / piece . Much cheaper than a solid axle swap .


https://www.rcvperformance.com/store/ca ... ucts_id=36
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by fishsticks » Thu Feb 09, 2012 1:55 pm

K1500 axles won't fit our trucks. Differing outer spline count and IIRC they use a stub shaft on the diff end.

The CV durability issue isn't actually that bad, and you can get past it by modifying your driving habits a little. I only broke CV outer CV joints and only when in 4WD, front locker engaged, and at or near full lock on the steering wheel. I ended up welding some longer steering stops onto my LCAs and that problem went away.

The splined disconnect and steering are the next problem areas. I converted to 3/4ton truck TREs to solve the steering problem. Once I couldn't keep the splined disconnect together I gave up and bought another truck.

$495 per CV axle is CRAZY. Consider that you need to buy three. (2 for use and 1 spare). $1500 and you still have steering issues, disconnect issues, and geometry issues (even with better CV axles the A arms can't support much more lift without lowering their mounts).

IMO, you're better off following one of the two SAS builds on here. If you don't want to go full boat, get a D44 and build a custom front driveshaft to adapt our stock T-case.
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by Skindiggers » Thu Feb 09, 2012 2:20 pm

Did you check that link ?
They are not saying only that are stronger ( which i understand that you don't need them to be ) but they say that normal cv joints have about 15-20 degree angle and these ones can work with 40 degree angle which will allow us to lift the front with an additional spacer on top of the strut without having problems with the cv joint .
When i first lifted my truck with a 2.5" spacer on top of the strut , i actually lifted it about 3.75" and i was having problems with the cv joints , using this axles will allow us to have maybe 4" lift without having any cv joint binding problems !
And do you think that a Dana44 plus a custom drive shaft plus all the ours of work for this transformation will be cheaper than some axles like this ( If they would be available for our platform !! )?
I was just trying to say that in my opinion this would be the future mod for our platform instead of the SAS !
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by Trail X » Thu Feb 09, 2012 3:02 pm

IFS also has a limitation to how high you can lift it before it starts acting a little funny due to geometry of the UCA and LCA. But a couple more inches might be ok with custom UCAs and driveshafts.
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by fishsticks » Thu Feb 09, 2012 4:02 pm

Skindiggers wrote:Did you check that link ?
They are not saying only that are stronger ( which i understand that you don't need them to be ) but they say that normal cv joints have about 15-20 degree angle and these ones can work with 40 degree angle which will allow us to lift the front with an additional spacer on top of the strut without having problems with the cv joint .
When i first lifted my truck with a 2.5" spacer on top of the strut , i actually lifted it about 3.75" and i was having problems with the cv joints , using this axles will allow us to have maybe 4" lift without having any cv joint binding problems !
And do you think that a Dana44 plus a custom drive shaft plus all the ours of work for this transformation will be cheaper than some axles like this ( If they would be available for our platform !! )?
I was just trying to say that in my opinion this would be the future mod for our platform instead of the SAS !



I've seen the link before. I'm aware they allow for some crazy angles.

The point I was making is even with those angles, you still have other unaddressed weak points in the IFS. Buying a set of high angle CVs and fixing all of the other problems in the front will cost more than even a D60.

Say you buy a set of these and get them to work on a TB. You lift the front end 6" (suspension only) and put 35-37" tires on. You install a locker because "Hey, why not? I'm going through all the rest of the trouble to do this."


The very next thing you will start breaking is tie rod ends. I've broken both sides on a single wheeling trip before. You'll have a much worse angle than I do.

Solution: Upgrade to 3/4ton TREs... but the angle is still severe, so you get the performance TREs from Bulletproof Steering ($400). Great. Now you have beefy TREs. Let's hope that the next week link in your steering isn't the rack.


I have the weakest I6 (270hp), 4.56 gears and 35s. I have broken my splined disconnect FOUR times. The last time I blew up an AWD sleeve (the same sleeve the SS guys use) and stripped the splines off of my intermediate shaft. How do you fix that?

Solution: You contact Bobby Long and convince him to make a chromoly intermediate shaft with splines for the passenger side CV axle as a one-piece unit. You have him cryo treat it just for good measure. You figure out how to make it work with your existing splined disconnect housing. You've just spent $1000.


Now that you've eliminated all the other weak points... you go out and have some fun. Unfortunately, because there are no more weak links to act like a mechanical fuse, you peel a bunch of teeth off of your ring gear, or walk the pinion and crack the aluminum housing.

Now what?

This is assuming you don't overstress and separate a balljoint. There's isn't much room left on the uppers even with flipped UCAs.



To solve half of these problems you need to find a way to relocate the UCA/LCA mounting points, drop the front diff out of the oil pan, and lower the steering rack. That alone will cost you more than a SAS. Trust me, I've looked. :) Also, doing this alleviates the need for high angle CV axles.
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by Skindiggers » Fri Feb 10, 2012 9:02 am

I have to agree with you..
..and more than those prices i will also have postal fees to Greece which will not be low !
But in case you want to use 33" tires and have better flex so you can pass over obstacles without so much aggressiveness , in order to keep your parts from blowing up because of the forces that appear when you push the gas to full throttle with a front locker , some axles like this would be perfect !
My problem is that i hate the fact that we do not have enough flex with the IFS and i'm breaking my nerves to find a solution for this !
I don't want 37" tires on the TB ... i just want to have at least the same flex in front like i have now in the rear without going to SAS !
It sound impossible , but hey... let me dream about it ... :lol:

:flex dirty:
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by DirtyBacon04 » Fri Feb 10, 2012 1:33 pm

fishsticks wrote:I have the weakest I6 (270hp), 4.56 gears and 35s. I have broken my splined disconnect FOUR times. The last time I blew up an AWD sleeve (the same sleeve the SS guys use) and stripped the splines off of my intermediate shaft.


I want to watch you wheel... :lurk: :flex dirty:
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by Skindiggers » Fri Feb 10, 2012 1:50 pm

DirtyBacon04 wrote:
fishsticks wrote:I have the weakest I6 (270hp), 4.56 gears and 35s. I have broken my splined disconnect FOUR times. The last time I blew up an AWD sleeve (the same sleeve the SS guys use) and stripped the splines off of my intermediate shaft.


I want to watch you wheel... :lurk: :flex dirty:



:lurk:
LoL..
He is a little aggressive but it's not very difficult to brake something with 4.56 gears , 35" tires and front locker !
one of my friends is having a brand new JK Rubicon (front and rear lockers) with original tires , no lift no aftermarket gears , no IFS and he broke his front axles 2 times in one year !
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by navigator » Fri Feb 10, 2012 2:19 pm

from what I have read, if you are hard on the gas a locker will break an axle. The one in the air spinning suddenly gains traction with something hard and something has got to give.
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by Skindiggers » Fri Feb 10, 2012 2:22 pm

navigator wrote:from what I have read, if you are hard on the gas a locker will break an axle. The one in the air spinning suddenly gains traction with something hard and something has got to give.


You are right but only in case you have a solid axle, in our case the front disconnect has inside some parts which are less strong than the axle and those parts will break first .
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by navigator » Fri Feb 10, 2012 3:41 pm

right, if you are locked you have to take it easy on the gas or something is going to break.
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by MK-voy » Fri Feb 10, 2012 8:09 pm

:scratch: its not easy.
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by fishsticks » Fri Feb 10, 2012 11:06 pm

DirtyBacon04 wrote:
fishsticks wrote:I have the weakest I6 (270hp), 4.56 gears and 35s. I have broken my splined disconnect FOUR times. The last time I blew up an AWD sleeve (the same sleeve the SS guys use) and stripped the splines off of my intermediate shaft.


I want to watch you wheel... :lurk: :flex dirty:



The last break was rather unimpressive on video...



I fail at around 2:55 and 4:45.
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by Skindiggers » Sat Feb 11, 2012 9:35 am

When did you broke the disconnect at 4:45 ?
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by fishsticks » Sat Feb 11, 2012 1:50 pm

I pretty sure... yes.
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by Skindiggers » Sat Feb 11, 2012 2:13 pm

...and it didn't look aggressive at all , the first attempt was much more aggressive with booth front wheels in the air .. maybe there you cracked it and after it blew off !
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by fishsticks » Sat Feb 11, 2012 2:58 pm

Yeah, I'm thinking it was a one-two punch...
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