Trail Rank Discussion

[HARDTRAILZ]

I agree w teebes and Roadie. Some desert trips, such as what you pictured are tough and rocky. i wasnt meaning tht your ventures werent worthy. I just meant as an example of those that are offroad, but no rocks, no mud.

I like teebes ideas. Thats why I put in there that if we work together, there is a great chance we can get some good rankings that have some solid credentials with them.

[Trail X]

- Offroad Ready: Entry level trails, few trails a year, one organized trip
- Weekend Warrior: Mild difficulty trails, numerous trails a month, numerous organized trips cmopleted
- Trail Rated: Well versed in recoveries maneuvers, self recoveries, mild to difficult trails, experienced trails across various offroad regions
- Trail Boss: The member has planned and been in charge of at least three posted trail rides of varying nature, easy - mild - difficult. Trail rides must have numerous vehicles.
- Expedition Ready: Completed at least one expedition trip consisting of 5 consecutive nights.
- Expedition Rated: The member has performed a solo expedition and/or led an expedition party consisting of 5 consecutive nights.

Hard to quantify when the jump is made between some of the categories.

Do you have an example of who would be expedition ready?... It would be like someone accompanying Bill for a week?

You guys like making things complicated...

[teebes]

I agree w teebes and Roadie. Some desert trips, such as what you pictured are tough and rocky. i wasnt meaning tht your ventures werent worthy. I just meant as an example of those that are offroad, but no rocks, no mud.

I like teebes ideas. Thats why I put in there that if we work together, there is a great chance we can get some good rankings that have some solid credentials with them.

No problem, but if you have any other idea's or suggestions - lets hear 'em

Do you have an example of who would be expedition ready?... It would be like someone accompanying Bill for a week?

Right, accompanying someone or a group on an 'expedition' trip (those that partake and not necessarily plan the entire trip, lead the entire trip, etc). Example would be my first, long trip with Bill. He handled the logistics, knew the area, performed the lead role the length of the trip. I'd still be up for Expo Ready after the trip.

Expo Rated would be someone that completes 2 or 3 expedition trips (doesn't have to be one) or whatever you guys think. Example, AlekG in his cross continental trips lasting 1 - 2 weeks. Hardcore.

I'm starting to veer away from 'Boss', too. Maybe 'Leader' or 'Guide' for that one.

[HARDTRAILZ]

- Trail Ready: Entry level trails, few trails a year, one organized trip
- Weekend Warrior: Mild difficulty trails, numerous trails a month, numerous organized trips cmopleted
- Offroad Rated: Well versed in recoveries maneuvers, self recoveries, mild to difficult trails, experienced trails across various offroad regions
- Trail Guide: The member has planned and been in charge of at least three posted trail rides of varying nature, easy - mild - moderate. Trail rides must have numerous vehicles.
Offroad Guide: Same as above but moderate to difficult trails
- Expedition Ready: Completed at least one expedition trip consisting of 5 consecutive nights with assistance from an experienced party.
- Expedition Rated: The member has performed a solo expedition and/or led an expedition party consisting of 5 consecutive nights.

On the expedition stuff, I love AlekG's posts and trips, but he was smart and did nothing really severe offroad. Expedition or Overland? Not well versed in that stuff, but I think the difficulty of offroading is as important as the length of trip.

The more i think about it, the tougher it is to differentiate categories. I mean anything under 45 degree slope is mild to me, but some people that would scare the crap out of and they would say it was difficult. There are trails where I go that lead to and around the rock garden and those that lead through it, but it is all considered one trail. How do you know which line they took and how difficult it was. Is 14 inches of mud or loose sand tougher as an offroader? Tight off-chanbers w trees or 4 foot rock step up?

Out of the ranking listed I would be most proud of the Offroad Rated. It to me means you can go anywhere and wheel. You can save yourself from flipping or flip yourself back over if needed. I think it is alot of your mindset. I would rather wheel hard all day and camp in a campground with facilities than carry my own facilities with me. I would rather run smooth lines all day and make it look easy than plan and lead a trip. Everythng has its place, but there are 3 categories up there...offroad, expedition, and leading. The ranking are not all based on offroad prowess, which you need to decide if it is an offroad ranking or just something to say you are.

Special Wheeler--One up for anything that has tried and conquered and tried and failed, but continues on through sheer love of the sport and outdoors. Jack of all trades and master of none. Prepared, but not with the perfect tool. A trail macgyver that will take you out and bring you back, but not necessarily without damage.

[The Roadie]

I had a little essay on the OS about the tremendous varieties of offroad entertainment we all are drawn towards, depending on our technical/driving skills/experience, artistic tendencies, appreciation of various kinds of outdoor experiences, and tolerance for discomfort/pain/expense. We have to be expansive, and inclusionary, except to keep out the inevitable mall-crawlers and show poodles.

It all leads me back to Walt Whitman's Song of Myself, which includes:

Do I contradict myself?
Very well then I contradict myself,
(I am large, I contain multitudes.)

[bgwolfpack]

HARDTRAILZ not to ruin a great post by you but I would fall under the 'Special Wheeler' category.

[HARDTRAILZ]

HARDTRAILZ not to ruin a great post by you but I would fall under the 'Special Wheeler' category.

But do you have a helmet like me????????????

[bgwolfpack]

HARDTRAILZ not to ruin a great post by you but I would fall under the 'Special Wheeler' category.

But do you have a helmet like me????????????

An old one of yours I found at Goodwill IIRC.

[teebes]

I like some of those, how about a slimmed down hybrid:

- Weekend Warrior: Entry level trails, few trails a year, one organized trip
- Trail Ready: Mild difficulty trails, numerous trails a month, numerous organized trips completed
- Offroad Ready: Well versed in recoveries maneuvers, self recoveries, mild to difficult trails, experienced trails across various offroad regions
- Offroad Rated: Constantly conquerors oderate to difficult trails, planned or led at least three posted trail rides of varying nature, easy - mild - moderate. Trail rides must have numerous vehicles.
- Expedition Ready: Completed at least one expedition trip consisting of 5 consecutive nights with assistance from an experienced party.
- Expedition Rated: The member has performed a solo expedition and/or led an expedition party consisting of 5 consecutive nights.


I can't imagine defining and managing more of these. I'm purposely leaving out 'trail rated' in this mix.


Expeditions aren't about difficulty. While some include them, it's not the main goal. Being in the 'outback', enjoying the scenery, etc.

[The Roadie]

Keep up the debate and discussion, folks - while I go try the Icons out and get ready for a ride.

[Gordinho80]

I guess I'd fall under "Offroad Ready" since I'm not constantly riding... not as much as I'd like to be, that is.

[Trail X]

Wow you guys have really made things complicated. I thought 3 was enough to handle! This is turning into a fiasco.

Now I'm confused though... where do I fall in now?... Who decides what is "moderate" or "difficult"...

The thing to keep in mind here is that we can't create a category to cater to everyone. I move to keep it simple. I don't want to have to be judge and jury here on your respective off road experience... thus why I was trying to make it numbers-based.

If we really want a tiered system, Maybe we should split Trail-Rated into two, and make a more stringent 'boss' category:

Trail Ready: posted proof of at least one off highway trip.
Offroad Rated: posted proof of at least 3 off highway trips, one of which should be considered non-stock passable.
Offroad Guide: guided at least three trips with numerous vehicles, has experience of vehicle recovery.
Expedition Rated: anyone taking trips of over 5 nights involving off road travel and logistics.

Hopefully this can be enough to make those of you who want more 'cred' happy.

[Gordinho80]

These make more sense, actually... K.I.S.S. Keep It Simple Stupid...

So I'm "Offroad Rated"

[teebes]

These make more sense, actually... K.I.S.S. Keep It Simple Stupid...

So I'm "Offroad Rated"

Except they don't really include the feedback we've been receiving. I also don't want to judge and deal with too many different levels of rank, but we are an offroad site and should try to incorporate some level of difficulty into the ranks.

[HARDTRAILZ]

I think the difficulty is the big issue. If you run dirt roads and few mud holes and a creek crossing or two every weekend are you really more offroad than the guy that can only get out 3 times a year but is climbing 12 foot high 60 degee rock faces and running through the wood on three wheels to get from 2 foot deep mud hole to 3 foot deep river bed crossing?

[Trail X]

I thought I did address the concern:

Stock passable vs. not?

There's a step up of not only # of trails you've ridden, but also difficulty. For instance, the people that went to MORA could only attain Trail Ready status, even if they went 5 times... no real difficulty there, as half of them in attendance were stock. At the same time, if someone hit's a rediculous trail once, they need to hit a few more trails before they attain the next step. It's a logical progression in my mind.

HTz, once you post up 3 trips, with one being half as difficult as you described, you attain the next step up.

It seems the trail difficulty is the main concern I've heard voiced here. I cannot think of a better way to address the issue than "stock passable" and "not", as it helps to keep us as unbiased as possible.

The main thing to note is:

Except we need to change it to "No pics, no rank".

[HARDTRAILZ]

I thought I did address the concern:

Stock passable vs. not?

There's a step up of not only # of trails you've ridden, but also difficulty. For instance, the people that went to MORA could only attain Trail Ready status, even if they went 5 times... no real difficulty there, as half of them in attendance were stock. At the same time, if someone hit's a rediculous trail once, they need to hit a few more trails before they attain the next step. It's a logical progression in my mind.

HTz, once you post up 3 trips, with one being half as difficult as you described, you attain the next step up.

It seems the trail difficulty is the main concern I've heard voiced here. I cannot think of a better way to address the issue than "stock passable" and "not", as it helps to keep us as unbiased as possible.

The main thing to note is:

Except we need to change it to "No pics, no rank".

Makes sense. I am not worried about my rank, just that they reflect what people can really do. I am hoping that as these vehicles get older and cheaper, there are some people that will try more unconvetional things with them. I wish I had 2000 for a sas. And some more cash for 5.13s but for now it is what it is. I just want some clarity and discussion as to what is what so that when this site grows(which I think it could/will) these issues don't come up. Right now there is a small group that can discuss and toss ideas around easily without much pissing and moaning, so I thought better now than later to draw out others ideas and throw out my concerns.

[Trail X]

Once our first SAS rock crawler appears, we'll make a special rank for them... they will deserve it.

I do appreciate your input, I hope it didn't feel like I was pushing back too hard. I think your concerns were valid, which is why I added a secondary step in there to differentiate the hardcore wheelers from the back road explorers.

Since it seems there is some agreement, I'll move toward implementing the aforementioned system.

[Gordinho80]

[MrSmithsTB]

Yay, smilies! I agree with the guidelines completely. If anything, I know people have a desire to have cool titles online to represent what they have done. I can guarantee that my trips off-road will be documented and more exploratory if it gains me a notable respect within the forum.