ORTB Camping Chat Thread

[TBYODA]

Change your cloths to clean & dry, even if you don't think you've sweated at all during the day, you have even if you feel dry and in the cold night you will cool down. Wear a hat to bed if you don't a have a mummy bag. I wear a pull over with hood and pull it down over me eye just above my nose, helps a lot.
Remember cotton kills, get a pair or two of polyester or spandex long sleeve shit and pants to layer. Best if hugging your body. The polyester will breath and let moisture out and keep you dry. Outer layer can be cotton this way. Eat some sugary snacks before bed, this way your body has some food to process and will make heat. And again stay off the ground, and the more bodies in the tent the better. Those fleece summer bags you see work great to add inside of a bag they add about 10 deg. You can also pick up bunch of those hand warmers and put inside your bag, close to you. If you got a pull over that has the one big pocket on the belly put two in there they will close to you, but not on your sink.

[Conner299]

What I do for cold nights?

When I was in Royal Rangers, we had a winter camping weekend. January in NE Ohio winter... We used to throw hay down, before we pitched the tent. About six inches or more, before compressed. If you have the room to haul half a square bail, it works pretty well. Haven't tried the futon method, but sounds like a winner.

[v7guy]

Ran across this nifty article this evening
http://woodtrekker.blogspot.com/2013/09 ... qus_thread

[dvanbramer88]

I read it. Interesting article for sure.

[JorDaneeKey]

Ran across this nifty article this evening
http://woodtrekker.blogspot.com/2013/09 ... qus_thread

Interesting, if you agree with the whole premise of the article which is that the average caloric intake per human per day is 3,300 calories. Considering most folks who "live off the land" adhere to a paleolithic/hunter-gather diet, calorie counting doesn't apply. Paleo/Primal/Hunter-gatherer's don't count calories, ever. When you take that into consideration and include other ideas from the Paleo/Primal crowd, such as intermittent fasting and eating only when hungry and until you are full, then it is not as hard to live off the land as the author would have you assume (because, yes, our ancestors did it just fine!).

Must just be hard for the yuppie author.

[dvanbramer88]

His whole premise was long term sustainability. Yea you could live off of much less for short periods of time or even a month or two. But he is talking about maintaining your current weight/strength indefinitely would require 3,300 calories a day for the average active/working person in that enviroment.

I've also held the understanding that 100% self sufficiency is not achievable. Even the homesteaders/preppers/survivialst types you strive for ultimate self sufficiency will admit that you can't do it. They'll still need a few thousand dollars a year to buy groceries and things they can't make themselves.


There is another school of thought I have heard of and saw a little about. Apparently if you reduce your food consumption and train yourself to live on (it's something like a third of what you eat now) you can live perfectly healthy and actually add something like 10 years to your life. The underlying premise has something to do with, at that intake rate, you trick your brain into going into starvation mode. Your finger nails and hair stop growing and your body focuses on core functions and lives very efficiently. Or so I hear.

[JorDaneeKey]

His whole premise was long term sustainability. Yea you could live off of much less for short periods of time or even a month or two. But he is talking about maintaining your current weight/strength indefinitely would require 3,300 calories a day for the average active/working person in that enviroment.

I've also held the understanding that 100% self sufficiency is not achievable. Even the homesteaders/preppers/survivialst types you strive for ultimate self sufficiency will admit that you can't do it. They'll still need a few thousand dollars a year to buy groceries and things they can't make themselves.


There is another school of thought I have heard of and saw a little about. Apparently if you reduce your food consumption and train yourself to live on (it's something like a third of what you eat now) you can live perfectly healthy and actually add something like 10 years to your life. The underlying premise has something to do with, at that intake rate, you trick your brain into going into starvation mode. Your finger nails and hair stop growing and your body focuses on core functions and lives very efficiently. Or so I hear.

If you adhere to his premise that you need a 3,300 calorie/day conventional food pyramid diet, then yes, absolutely you need to go to the grocery store for your processed goods like wheats, grains, etc. If you adhere to the Paleo/Primal lifestyle, then his article is bunk, and complete self-sufficiency is absolutely possible (and easier). It's all in your choices and what you believe is healthy.

[dvanbramer88]

I understand your point. And you're right. It all depends on how "modern" you want to eat.

[mikekey]

His whole premise was long term sustainability. Yea you could live off of much less for short periods of time or even a month or two. But he is talking about maintaining your current weight/strength indefinitely would require 3,300 calories a day for the average active/working person in that enviroment.

I've also held the understanding that 100% self sufficiency is not achievable. Even the homesteaders/preppers/survivalist types you strive for ultimate self sufficiency will admit that you can't do it. They'll still need a few thousand dollars a year to buy groceries and things they can't make themselves.


There is another school of thought I have heard of and saw a little about. Apparently if you reduce your food consumption and train yourself to live on (it's something like a third of what you eat now) you can live perfectly healthy and actually add something like 10 years to your life. The underlying premise has something to do with, at that intake rate, you trick your brain into going into starvation mode. Your finger nails and hair stop growing and your body focuses on core functions and lives very efficiently. Or so I hear.

Umm no. Do you know how many people and cultures are living 100% self sustaining.

I'll trust the research of paleontologist and evolutionary biologist before some "guys" meta study. Although it's an interesting premises, there are a number of logical flaws, and ignoring some big sets of data coming out of evolutionary biology.

He's based his entire premise on the work of Thayer (an author, not a researcher) into the death of Chris McCandless. Chris McCandless who the movie "Into The Wild" is based on, was a retard. Who went into an area of limited bio-availability in the ALASKAN wilderness and proceeded to starve to death from his stupidity. This retarded kid didnt' even bother to move beyond his little area. STUPID.

Can you survive in an area of limited resources? Think about that, does it even need an answer? Does that mean it's impossible to survive in the wilderness for extended periods of time?

How do all the hunter gather tribes who still exist in both Africa and South America who do not farm survive today?

It's been shown that tribal humans and pre-agricultural humans don't burn carbs, but burn fat stores for energy, requiring a far lower number of calories than generally assumed. Most of the remaining hunter gatherer tribes in Africa, South America and East Asia consume far fewer calories a day, and often times periods of fasting. They also don't stay in small little swaths of land like Chris McCandless. They cover large areas of terrain to hunt and gather food.

The problem I have with the article is the painting with big brush strokes to reach conclusions and the premise is that one cannot survive long term in the wilderness is based solely on what? What wilderness? What kind of person? Caloric requirements vary based on a number of factors. Sex, Age, Height, Weight, health issues, and even the climate and terrain all play a factor.

Just where are we talking about surviving? What conditions?

One size "research" does not fit all. Thanks for the generalities though.

[dvanbramer88]

You guys obviously read into this a lot deeper than I did. And you're right.

What I meant when I said 100% self sustainability isn't possible, that was in the regard if you choose to continue to rely on gasoline, gas powered tools, coffee, sugar, spices etc. Basically commodities. If you can go without these commodities, (you're not going to be able to produce them in any amount of volume efficiently on your own), than you can do pretty well on the "basics." The author does assume you will be relying on non-renewable resources as well. Such as ammunition for example.

Everything you said Mike is accurate. Hunter/gatherers were highly nomadic and covered vast distances following game and foraging.

[navigator]

... Hunter/gatherers were highly nomadic and covered vast distances following game and foraging.

I would think this would be hard to do in much of the modern US.

[RyansTBLS]

Depends where you're at. Out here we collect pine nuts, camas, huckleberries, mushrooms, fish salmon, hunt deer and Elk, gather firewood, and so forth. When we need cash, we pan for gold. We're pretty self sufficient out here, just need some land. But our forests are open to all that I just listed, depending on seasons.

[v7guy]

You guys were reading a lot more info that than I did lol
I found mostly the availability of calories in various food sources the most interesting, I'd never looked at it like that really. He skips over a tremendous amount of other food sources.
As mentioned, terrain and climate would likely have a massive impact even disregarding personal eating habits.

[TBYODA]

Scored a Coleman 12v cooler today for $40 from a CL post, no more ice on week end trips.
http://www.coleman.com/product/powerchi ... lN_KWu9KSM

[ErikSS]

Those are great! They are hard on batteries though. Be careful not to leave yourself stranded!

[Cable810]

Parents have that exact one but in Blue and White. Its an awesome cooler and worth every penny!!!

[Trail X]

Unplug it at night, and you should be alright. I think a few members here have one of those and have had good luck with it.

[TBYODA]

Unplug it at night, and you should be alright. I think a few members here have one of those and have had good luck with it.

That was my plan along with seeding it with frozen quart size container of water.

[DirtyBacon04]

Something i stumbled upon... pretty neat, really. Not practical for those of you with RTTs, but those of us who still sleep IN the cab, this would be good to have for a rainy trip

[DustinC1989]

Something i stumbled upon... pretty neat, really. Not practical for those of you with RTTs, but those of us who still sleep IN the cab, this would be good to have for a rainy trip

That would work great