Offroad Trailblazers and Envoys

PLANNING: JD's 4 Corners Area Overland Tour

Trips/trails in the western part of the U.S. (loosely follows the Mountain Time Zone).
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by Trail X » Thu Mar 31, 2011 9:19 am

dirty anton wrote:you may want to move there after your trip! its awesome! :safari:

I'm hoping this is the reaction that occurs in my wife. Also, thanks for the saline tip.

Regulator1175 wrote:On your return trip I would suggest turning north in Salida between I and J and running north to 70 that way. I grew up in Buena Vista, just north of Salida, and I think that drive along the Arkansas between Salida and Leadville has to be one of the most beautiful drives in the area.

After some google street view poking around, you're right. That Arkansas river valley is really something to behold. I'll keep the suggestion in mind for sure!
Any good hole-in-the-wall restaurants in Buena Vista?
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by Trail X » Thu Mar 31, 2011 11:27 am

Another idea -
Since we're going to be traveling by Mesa Verde we were considering making a quick stop there. Anyone ever been? Is it a place that can be enjoyed (I imagine not fully) in a couple/few hours? It'd be really neat to see some petroglyphs and cliff dwellings.
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by bgwolfpack » Thu Mar 31, 2011 11:35 am

JamesDowning wrote:Another idea -
Since we're going to be traveling by Mesa Verde we were considering making a quick stop there. Anyone ever been? Is it a place that can be enjoyed (I imagine not fully) in a couple/few hours? It'd be really neat to see some petroglyphs and cliff dwellings.
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by Regulator1175 » Thu Mar 31, 2011 3:49 pm

JamesDowning wrote:
dirty anton wrote:you may want to move there after your trip! its awesome! :safari:

I'm hoping this is the reaction that occurs in my wife. Also, thanks for the saline tip.

Regulator1175 wrote:On your return trip I would suggest turning north in Salida between I and J and running north to 70 that way. I grew up in Buena Vista, just north of Salida, and I think that drive along the Arkansas between Salida and Leadville has to be one of the most beautiful drives in the area.

After some google street view poking around, you're right. That Arkansas river valley is really something to behold. I'll keep the suggestion in mind for sure!
Any good hole-in-the-wall restaurants in Buena Vista?


It has been 6 years since I have been back there to visit, and much longer since we moved from there in '89, however I remember Casa del Sol being the local place to eat.

Also, on your way through Leadville you should check out the Silver Dollar Saloon. I am sure Gotspeed will chime in, but it has to be one of the most amazing bars I have stepped foot in. You walk through the front door and feel like your stepping back into the Wild West. The history on the walls and the atmosphere in the place is something to see.
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by Trail X » Thu Mar 31, 2011 7:38 pm

Thanks for the suggestions. I'll take a look and see if they are still around. They sound really cool.

I also have a couple options that I'm looking into.

Monument Valley ... or ... Valley of the Gods?

Orphir Pass ... or ... Engineer Pass? (the wife has some mixed opinions about some of the drop offs on those drives though... ok, not really mixed, she's decidedly worried about them)

Again, thanks for all the tips guys.
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by Trail X » Mon Apr 04, 2011 3:15 pm

Just pulled the trigger on a scratch and dent 12V fridge for the truck. We deemed it a necessity for a trip this long. I'll be integrating it into the vehicle in a similar way to Bill - probably make a rear deck platform too. Any thoughts as to a good layout? I'm probably not going to do a slide out... but any other insight? Going to try to think this through.
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by The Roadie » Mon Apr 04, 2011 3:44 pm

Just do a lower platform like my lower deck. Fridge fits front to back and is low enough to see over. The door slide-out was cool, but it is annoying to have to climb up to see the bottom. And with the RTT, I can no longer fully open the lid. Sigh.....
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by HARDTRAILZ » Mon Apr 04, 2011 7:54 pm

Nice journey... In St. Louis try Blue City Deli. Great sandwiches and if you do a hotel night there you could do Schlafley and Budweiser breweries.

Harlan County, KY if its near your route..not sure exactly where it is off-hand...has cool firebreak roads and Black Mountain Offroad park that you can cross through. has enterance on oneside of mtn and exit on other. Cool to toss that in if you can.
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by Trail X » Thu Apr 07, 2011 11:52 am

Thanks for the suggestion. We might try to hit it as a late lunch or early dinner that day. Gonna be a long day ~14 hours on the road. Dubbed the 'hell day'.

The fridge also came in today. A few dented panels, but why buy something pristine if it's just going to get beat up and sit in a garage anyways?

It's a bit larger than I expected, 43 quarts internal capacity... but there's like 3" of insulation around it all. Going to have to really think about the layout.
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by navigator » Thu Apr 07, 2011 3:17 pm

James, while you are at Pikes Peak you can pick up one of these for your future travels.
They are ONLY $3k.

http://pikespeaktrailers.com/
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I think those things are awesome. It makes me want to try to build one.
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by Trail X » Thu Apr 07, 2011 3:30 pm

Not bad looking, but I can't imagine paying 3 grand for one. As you said, I'd make it myself first... hmm new project idea... the wife's going to love this.
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by NC_IslandRunner » Thu Apr 07, 2011 3:57 pm

Cool box but much $$$ you can get a cargo trailer for that much, :idea: Old U-HAUL trailer lifted...
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by navigator » Thu Apr 07, 2011 4:05 pm

yeah, looking over their site, they are built very rugged.
It might be nice to build one and since they are water tight just store much of your camping gear in it. When you get ready to camp just hook up and go.

Right now when we camp I have to dig out my list and make sure I have everything, pack it all up etc....

Sorry JD, didn't mean to hijack your thread.
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by bgwolfpack » Thu Apr 07, 2011 11:00 pm

JamesDowning wrote:Not bad looking, but I can't imagine paying 3 grand for one. As you said, I'd make it myself first... hmm new project idea... the wife's going to love this.
James I've been doing alot of research on adventure trailers like these. I doubt you have time to start this project and finish it before you leave. :raspberry:
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by fishsticks » Thu Apr 07, 2011 11:18 pm

bgwolfpack wrote:
JamesDowning wrote:Not bad looking, but I can't imagine paying 3 grand for one. As you said, I'd make it myself first... hmm new project idea... the wife's going to love this.
James I've been doing alot of research on adventure trailers like these. I doubt you have time to start this project and finish it before you leave. :raspberry:



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by Trail X » Fri Apr 08, 2011 8:34 am

No, Ran is right... I've got enough other projects on the docket.

Gives me something to think about though... I need to get my own welder.
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by Trail X » Wed Apr 13, 2011 1:48 pm

As an update, I'm considering skipping Zion as of now (anyone have opinions otherwise? I get the impression there are just too many tourists there).

Instead I'm thinking about going from Moab to Bryce, maybe exploring the waterpocket fold, and thinking about following the Burr Trail down to Lake Powell, then on to the N. Rim of the GC, bounce around, explore L. Powell (Alstrom Point?), then on to Cedar Mesa and Monument Valley... might end up cutting Colorado short a bit and forgoing the off-road section of the Colorado portion.

Too much to see, not enough time!

Waterpocket fold:
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Burr trail:
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Cedar Mesa:
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Alstrom Point:
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by AlekG » Tue May 10, 2011 3:27 am

Hey James,

so much to see and do. I was out there twice as you know and only scratched the surface. I envy this gentleman and his ongoing journey: http://theoasisofmysoul.com/


A few points to think about:

In the Massey books, Engineer Pass is rated a 4 and Ophir Pass a 3. But you're not going to get away from steep drop-offs anywhere in CO except for the 1 rated roads, which are basically tame gravel roads. In the area you are talking about (Silverton - Ouray) I took Hurricane Pass out of Silverton over California Peak and ended up in what is considered the best ghost town - Animas. Then Cinnamon pass back out to pavement.

I didn't find the drop-offs too intimidating, it was some of the tight switchbacks that had me white-knuckled because I was alone and didn't have a spotter. As for snow, you should be fine unless some freak early storm comes in. The prime offroad season for the CO mountains is August-September. Once you get into October it gets a little dicey. One final note, have lots of water handy when driving because at 12,000+, you do start to feel the altitude. You're in better shape than me but you may start to get dehydrated and a bit light-headed.



White Rim trail is definitely a 2-day excursion if you are going to be stopping and taking pictures like Roadie did. Rushing through detracts from it big-time. Also, there are some side trails along the way that lead down to the rivers in various spots. Oh, and you MUST reserve a camping spot ahead of time on a particular night. The best spots (halfway point) are usually booked very early.

If you can't work the 2 days into your schedule, then the Shafer Trail is awesome for a one day trip. You actually have to start with the Shafer and its crazy drop down into the canyon to get to the White Rim Trail turnoff. But if you continue on the Shafer, you will be treated to some excellent scenery as well. Ultimately it leads out to Potash and back to Moab.



The Grand Canyon. I have been fortunate enough to visit every major spot over the years - South Rim, North RIm, Tuweep. For pure adventure it is definitely Tuweep. Its isolated but not extremely difficult to get to, other than the distance. I did the trip comfortably in one day (hotel to hotel back on pavement) with lots of stopping for pictures. The only thing that would cause major issues there is rain ... the roads become "impassible". I met a couple of people at the rim and they said they were staying in the nearby campground so that they could take in the sunset which is spectacular I suspect. The campground is walking distance form the rim. I unfortunately did not plan for that.

Second choice is North Rim but definitely more tourist oriented - pavement all the way, lodges, parking lots, guard rails on the walking trail, etc. Different experience and view, more open and vast (like the South Rim).



Even though Monument Valley is the one in all the movies (My Darling Clementine, Eiger Sanction, etc.), it is within Native land and has been set up as a paid tourist area. I didn't go into the area, just beside it, so I don't know the exact situation but I believe that after you pay an entrance fee, you can drive a circular route yourself, or take an organized tour that goes into more remote areas.

Valley of the Gods is in the Massey books so I took that route. Its a very easy circular road but with plenty of scenery and interesting vistas. Reading an entry on Expedition Portal I saw that there are some very cool primitive camp sites along the route and staying overnight close to some of the rock formations is an experience unto itself with the stars, etc. Again, my plans could not accommodate that.


OK, if I think of anything else I will post again.



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by Trail X » Tue May 10, 2011 9:20 am

Thanks for the feedback Alek!

We're definitely hoping to get some primitive camping in the schedule.

I've revised the route some (basically per my last post), and am hoping to fit in the Burr Trail through the waterpocket fold, then come down and skirt along Lake Powell. I'm then hoping to come down and spend a night in Point Sublime off the N. Rim (supposed to be pretty remote).

Valley of the Gods sounds nice. Might have to modify the route for that, especially if we can do some camping under the monoliths. I'll have to look for those routes on Expo.

Massey ratings go up to what? What is a 4 trail like? I've seen a video from Engineer Pass and other than the drop-off, it didn't appear too bad. I'll check out Hurricane Pass too... that could be a good alternative. I'd really like to hit some portion of the Alpine loop, but I don't want it to be too extreme for the wife.

Good to know about the good dates for travel in that region, as its looking like we're probably moving our travel dates up some to mid September.
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by AlekG » Tue May 10, 2011 11:08 pm

The Massey Ratings are based on a 10 scale, however, because they focus on "back-country" adventures, not "rock-crawling" insanity, the useful range is 1 - 5. The books include very few 6 and 7 trails, for example, Black Bear Pass and Red Cone Peak (and nothing higher I believe). The most difficult trail I took was Kennebec Pass which was a 5. In the Utah book, the notorious Elephant HIll is a 7.

The higher ratings in the CO book are usually not due to difficult surface conditions or obstacles, since these trails are HEAVILY used during the season (remember, most trails are open only 2 months, 3 tops) and it is in the best interest of tourism to not have overlanders need rock stacking or winching (huge backlogs would occur). The difficulty is always almost due to steep drop-offs, narrow conditions (1 vehicle only, some trails are only 1 way), tricky and cramped switchbacks, and off-camber tracks. Kind of the opposite of eastern offroad parks where its mud, water, and obstacles. Remember, most of the fun in CO happens ABOVE the tree line.

If you settle on a few specific trails, I can scan some pages and send them to you as a PDF, just let me know the ones you may be interested in (don't forget the state they are in, I have the CO, AZ, and UT books).


AG



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