Offroad Trailblazers and Envoys

Radflo Custom OEM replacement Coilovers

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by OregTrailBlazin » Thu Mar 15, 2012 1:57 pm

They are ready to build them. About a week lead time, and will run $1069 shipped.

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bartonmd wrote:Just an update on these. As per SOP, there was some stiction on the valves/shafts/seals when new, but now that they've got ~1k miles on them, they really ride a lot nicer, and hold the road a lot better over mid-corner bumps (they were already better than the Bilsteins + 87's from day 1). I'd say that at this point, even though the spring rate is much higher than the 87's, the ride quality is actually better than the Bilsteins + 87's, even without the winch on the front.

Overall, I really, really like them!

Mike
Last edited by OregTrailBlazin on Wed Sep 19, 2012 7:34 pm, edited 3 times in total.
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by Trail X » Thu Mar 15, 2012 2:16 pm

I think you can safely extend about an inch longer than the bilstein HDs allow (I assume same as stock?). Much more than that needs to be fine tuned very carefully.

~75 N/mm rate should work well.

If the coilovers are adjustable, can they just give us adjustment between 2" and 3" of lift? Between my springs and the BDS lift, I think mine have about 3" of suspension lift total, and they ride well at that height.
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by bartonmd » Thu Mar 15, 2012 2:25 pm

JamesDowning wrote:~75 N/mm rate should work well.
.


James,

What is the 75 N/mm rate equivelant to? OEM '88 springs?

I have the '87 springs, and they're pretty good with just the bumper and skids, but they're still a bit on the under-sprung side from what I'd like, off road, or even on road, with the winch mounted... Kyle's '88s feel great to me.

Though, I'm not sure if my stock-ish height suspension geometry has something to do with that, as compared to the more toward vertical control arms of somebody that's lifted farther.

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by HARDTRAILZ » Thu Mar 15, 2012 2:32 pm

I likely have 4 inches or so of lift and would not want any less. My 88s feel good alone and a bit better w added weight. Not sure o would want any softer.
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by Trail X » Thu Mar 15, 2012 3:09 pm

88s are 74 N/mm per the spec I have.
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by bartonmd » Thu Mar 15, 2012 3:19 pm

OK, so a little heavier than the 88 springs... Perfect.

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by navigator » Thu Mar 15, 2012 3:21 pm

Help me understand how a new coilover give us anything more than a stiffer spring with a spacer?
I'm guessing that since the spacer limits articulation (you are riding around basically flexed 3 inches) the idea of a coilover is to give lift but allow more articulation. Am I on the right track?
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by Trail X » Thu Mar 15, 2012 3:36 pm

You can't allow too much articulation, because the CV's tripod housing is the mechanical limit (given flipped UCAs).

Coilovers offer an "engineered package". Tuned damping, adjustible height (generally by a threaded collar), and rebuildable internals.
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by navigator » Thu Mar 15, 2012 3:52 pm

thanks James, that is what I was thinking as far as the articulation.
So it won't really provide any more lift or articulation it will just do it in a better way.
Looking at prices for something like ICON coilovers for a Tacoma (~$1K) I would think the market on these wouldn't be that large for our platform
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by fishsticks » Thu Mar 15, 2012 4:04 pm

JamesDowning wrote:I think you can safely extend about an inch longer than the bilstein HDs allow (I assume same as stock?). Much more than that needs to be fine tuned very carefully.

~75 N/mm rate should work well.

If the coilovers are adjustable, can they just give us adjustment between 2" and 3" of lift? Between my springs and the BDS lift, I think mine have about 3" of suspension lift total, and they ride well at that height.



With the wheels straight 1" is good. The inner tripots are mostly happy there. I've discovered that the OUTERS are problematic with anything over stock droop however once you step up tire sizes and/or add the locker. I'll be pulling my washer extensions out soon.

88ish spring rate is about right. 88's will take a good bit of bounce/wheel hop without bottoming out the shock.
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by The Roadie » Fri Mar 16, 2012 2:26 am

An aftermarket coilover by almost ANYBODY is going to have a superior shock. GM gave us a choice of a dozen spring stiffnesses, and we're stuck with only ONE choice of shock. :facepalm: Took a lot of testing and tuning to get something in the rear to match the Z71 springs, but we never had a choice in the fronts.

With my Icons (RIP - I may never the mounts remachined if this work situation keeps up), I could run on desert washboards at 2-3 times the speed of the aftermarket Bilsteins. Stiffer springs helped a LOT, but the shocks were instantly noticeable. 2" rocks, 3-4" washboards, and the occasional 10" whoopsie would just disappear. You also need to be aired down, and there aren't a lot of empty and WIDE washes that you can do this in, but Split Mountain Wash is where I did a lot of testing. Stock you'd be limited to 5-7 MPH. With a lift and stiffer springs maybe 10-12. WIth my Icons at their best I could do 25-35 and everybody would eat my dust and die trying to keep up.

Where I broke the Icon mount was on a lumpy but not rock-filled hill climb on Palomar Mountain - dried washed out dirt fire road - where the suspension would alternate from fully compressed to fully extended every ten feet. Used to climb this at 2-3 MPH and I was probably doing 13-15 when it broke on an extension.
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by OregTrailBlazin » Mon Mar 19, 2012 6:27 pm

OK, so looks like a 74n/mm is roughly around 425lbf/in. So a 450lb coil should be about right. Seems a little soft, I'm running 650lbs on the coilovers in my TB, but they are a little too firm, and I have a bumper to counter some of it.

If anyone happens to have the Ext/Col length of the HD's available I would really appreciate it..
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by OregTrailBlazin » Mon Mar 19, 2012 6:43 pm

navigator wrote:Looking at prices for something like ICON coilovers for a Tacoma (~$1K) I would think the market on these wouldn't be that large for our platform



Probably not huge, when I first did this with Icon, I had 10 people on a committed list between here and the OldOS. Radflo typically comes in a little less than Icon, but I imagine the 2.5 Diameter units will be right at the 900-1000 range. Allot of money, but you have to figure its a shock, coil, and lift all in the same package.
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by Trail X » Tue Mar 20, 2012 10:55 am

OregTrailBlazin wrote:If anyone happens to have the Ext/Col length of the HD's available I would really appreciate it..


I do not have it, BUT, when I was researching a modification, I called Bilstein's hotline and they gave me all the specs I needed to know. I just told them I wanted to use it on a custom installation.
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by bartonmd » Tue Mar 20, 2012 11:07 am

OregTrailBlazin wrote:
navigator wrote:Looking at prices for something like ICON coilovers for a Tacoma (~$1K) I would think the market on these wouldn't be that large for our platform



Probably not huge, when I first did this with Icon, I had 10 people on a committed list between here and the OldOS. Radflo typically comes in a little less than Icon, but I imagine the 2.5 Diameter units will be right at the 900-1000 range. Allot of money, but you have to figure its a shock, coil, and lift all in the same package.


Hell, a SINGLE shock for the rear of a motorcycle is $1k +/-

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by bartonmd » Tue Mar 20, 2012 11:57 am

My only real question is, what is "Rod - Mirror polished Nitro Steel®" and how does it compare in longevity to hard chrome that's normally on damper rods?

If it's a nitride treatment, I know from guns that it's harder than hard chrome (Very nearly as hard as industrial diamond), is nearly rust proof, and lasts quite a bit longer than hard chrome... (Glock calls it Tenifer, SA calls it Melonite, others just call it "nitride treated") But i want to make sure that's what it is...

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by OregTrailBlazin » Tue Mar 20, 2012 12:19 pm

bartonmd wrote:My only real question is, what is "Rod - Mirror polished Nitro Steel®" and how does it compare in longevity to hard chrome that's normally on damper rods?

If it's a nitride treatment, I know from guns that it's harder than hard chrome (Very nearly as hard as industrial diamond), is nearly rust proof, and lasts quite a bit longer than hard chrome... (Glock calls it Tenifer, SA calls it Melonite, others just call it "nitride treated") But i want to make sure that's what it is...

Mike



Your absolutely right, It is a nitride treatment. It has held up far better than the hard chrome shafts. We've stopped selling a couple manufactures that only use the Chrome shafts, and didn't want to back up the product when they rusted out in 6 months. My coilovers have been on for a handful of years now, and not a spec of rust on the shaft.
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by bartonmd » Tue Mar 20, 2012 12:28 pm

If they can be closer to the $900 mark, I'm in.

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by navigator » Tue Mar 20, 2012 1:07 pm

hey, I just thought about something....
When these hit the market there might be a fire sale on some 87/88's and other lift components for cheapskates like me!
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by The Roadie » Wed Mar 21, 2012 11:37 am

navigator wrote:... there might be a fire sale on some 87/88's and other lift components...
What, people won't keep their takeoffs for spares? The packrat force is weak in them, I fear.

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