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BDS Suspension - Shock discussion

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by BDS Suspension » Wed Feb 02, 2011 11:01 am

janesy86 wrote:Matt, is there a warranty on the these shocks? I got a set only in April of last year and they are both busted at the seals and are leaking... the box says lifetime guarantee, so is there anything you can do? Looking to replace soon for a better ride just want to know my options.

Thanks, Nick


All you need is proof of purchase and we should be able to get you fixed up. We will fully replace shocks up to 1 year after purchase for leakage or other non-trail damage failures. We have a seperate warranty for our shocks because obviously they are a wear item so it would be foolish for us to apply a lifetime warranty to them. You won't find anybody selling a shock of this nature and giving a lifetime warranty. The lifetime guarantee on the box is in reference to our suspension component warranty.

I am curious what shock cylinder # you have. A while ago we changed the raw cylinder that goes in the kit. The original was a 5266 and the new one is a 5251. You will find this # on the body of the cylinder near the mounting eye along with some other random production code #s.
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by bartonmd » Wed Feb 02, 2011 11:19 am

BDS Suspension wrote:
janesy86 wrote:Matt, is there a warranty on the these shocks? I got a set only in April of last year and they are both busted at the seals and are leaking... the box says lifetime guarantee, so is there anything you can do? Looking to replace soon for a better ride just want to know my options.

Thanks, Nick


All you need is proof of purchase and we should be able to get you fixed up. We will fully replace shocks up to 1 year after purchase for leakage or other non-trail damage failures. We have a seperate warranty for our shocks because obviously they are a wear item so it would be foolish for us to apply a lifetime warranty to them. You won't find anybody selling a shock of this nature and giving a lifetime warranty. The lifetime guarantee on the box is in reference to our suspension component warranty.

I am curious what shock cylinder # you have. A while ago we changed the raw cylinder that goes in the kit. The original was a 5266 and the new one is a 5251. You will find this # on the body of the cylinder near the mounting eye along with some other random production code #s.


http://bds-suspension.com/policies#warranty
Shock and Stabilizer Cylinders Limited Lifetime Warranty
BDS Suspension Co. warrants to the original retail purchaser that its shock and stabilizer cylinders are free from defects in material and workmanship for so long as they own the vehicle. Excluded from this warranty are the finish of the product and mounting bushings. Defects in material and workmanship do not include such things as dented cylinders or bent rods caused by obvious side impact, rust, worn or deformed bushings. A shock absorber is a wear item and over time will experience diminished damping resistance due to normal component wear. This is not a defect in material or workmanship and is therefore not warrantable.

BDS Suspension's obligation under all warranties is limited to the repair or replacement, at BDS's option, of the defective material. Any cost of removal, installation or reinstallation, freight charges, incidental or consequential damages are expressly excluded from these warranties.


So a shock leaking out its oil after 1 year is not a defect, and should be expected? (ETA: and is not covered by the lifetime shock warranty on your website, and is instead covered by the 1 year warranty that I can't find anywhere (unless it's in the fine print somewhere)

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by bartonmd » Wed Feb 02, 2011 11:51 am

Having said that, this is from Bilstein:

Image

I'm still wondering where the 1-year warranty came from, though???
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by BDS Suspension » Wed Feb 02, 2011 12:27 pm

http://bds-suspension.com/policies#warranty
Shock and Stabilizer Cylinders Limited Lifetime Warranty
BDS Suspension Co. warrants to the original retail purchaser that its shock and stabilizer cylinders are free from defects in material and workmanship for so long as they own the vehicle. Excluded from this warranty are the finish of the product and mounting bushings. Defects in material and workmanship do not include such things as dented cylinders or bent rods caused by obvious side impact, rust, worn or deformed bushings. A shock absorber is a wear item and over time will experience diminished damping resistance due to normal component wear. This is not a defect in material or workmanship and is therefore not warrantable.
BDS Suspension's obligation under all warranties is limited to the repair or replacement, at BDS's option, of the defective material. Any cost of removal, installation or reinstallation, freight charges, incidental or consequential damages are expressly excluded from these warranties.

So a shock leaking out its oil after 1 year is not a defect, and should be expected? (ETA: and is not covered by the lifetime shock warranty on your website, and is instead covered by the 1 year warranty that I can't find anywhere (unless it's in the fine print somewhere)
Mike[/quote]

In short, basically no, a leaking shock after 1 year is not considered a manufacturer's defect. After one years time the component has had sufficient time to be affected by its use/environment for it to not be considered a defect. To say since we don't warranty for leakage after 1 year means we expect it to leak is a false conclusion and is by no means the case. Using that argument logic none of us would be driving cars more than 4 years old because they would be out of warranty and destine to fail. The tough thing here for us is we needed to put some sort of a limit to certain things we will/won't warranty and when, being that this is a wear part. We are somewhat at the mercy of our shock supplier. We have limited control of the product we receive beyond our receiving inspection process. What the limited lifetime warranty does cover is any broad manufacturing issues that may arise. For example, if the manufacturer had a bad welder and shock eyes were breaking off, we would see a large volume of these at which point we would refer to production codes on the shocks to find if they were part of the bad run(s). In this case we would replace/repair beyond that 1 year mark (think more of a recall type situation). In general, acrossed our broad application range, we have a very small percentage of issues with our shocks. Use, application and environment are the three main factors in a shocks longevity. Those factors can greatly very from one situation to the next. 1 year and 20,000 miles in Michigan tends to be a lot harder on components then, say Florida for example.

Obviously, each situation is a little different and we do our best to work with those. But for consistancy purposes and the sanity of our tech department as well as our dealers, we needed to put a max time on our replacement policy. As far as the warranty verbiage goes, I agree and have brought this up in the past that we should reword for clarity. Honestly, I think we inherited that warranty wording from our supplier.

Hopefully this helps with the understanding Mike. Let me know if you have any additional questions I can address. If you have specific questions/concerns with your situation then feel free to PM me if you like.
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by BDS Suspension » Wed Feb 02, 2011 12:37 pm

bartonmd wrote:Having said that, this is from Bilstein:

Image

I'm still wondering where the 1-year warranty came from, though???


Interesting chart. I have not run across that before.

Adding to my post above explaining the 1 year...We try to make our warranty easy. Pretty much yes/no. I think "send it in so we can inspect it" is just a way to prolong a fore-gone conclusion. Almost always we know when we will/will not warranty something and I think that consistancy, in general, is appreciated by our customer and our dealers. With that said, if you wanted us to inspect something to better determine our course of action (within reason) I would say we would not turn you down. For the most part we rely on our dealers to be our eyes and ears on warranty claims. That is why we always encourage consumers to deal through a BDS dealer. These dealers will give you support before, during and after the sale. Many will have replacement parts in stock or the ability to get them within a few days.
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by bartonmd » Wed Feb 02, 2011 1:20 pm

It's not that I don't understand this stuff. I am an engineer, and deal quite a lot with warranty in my 9-5 job. My question is, why is the 1 year warranty not on your website, but the limited lifetime warranty is? I think the reason all of these people are feeling screwed is because your website would lead one to believe that stuff like this would be covered by the limited lifetime warranty. To your car warranty argument, what I am saying is; if you bought a car that you were told had a lifetime warranty, and after you bought it and had an issue, the car company said "even though we don't have it written or posted anywhere, your warranty is only 1 year."

So what I am saying is, post on your website that leaking shocks and the like is not covered under your lifetime warranty, but is covered under the 1 year warranty that you still need to post on your website with the limited lifetime shock warranty.

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by janesy86 » Wed Feb 02, 2011 1:35 pm

BDS Suspension wrote:All you need is proof of purchase and we should be able to get you fixed up. We will fully replace shocks up to 1 year after purchase for leakage or other non-trail damage failures. We have a seperate warranty for our shocks because obviously they are a wear item so it would be foolish for us to apply a lifetime warranty to them. You won't find anybody selling a shock of this nature and giving a lifetime warranty. The lifetime guarantee on the box is in reference to our suspension component warranty.

I am curious what shock cylinder # you have. A while ago we changed the raw cylinder that goes in the kit. The original was a 5266 and the new one is a 5251. You will find this # on the body of the cylinder near the mounting eye along with some other random production code #s.



Ok, I just looked thru every type of payment I had and found the receipt thru paypal. Bought on March 31st 2010.

So I suppose my only way of getting a replacement would be to just buy a new set thru you guys and then send you mine with receipt of purchase, once I get the new ones? Then I get a refund? I do need to drive this daily... and don't have stock shocks.

Also I checked out the # on the body of the shock and it is in fact the newer one (5251).
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by Gordinho80 » Wed Feb 02, 2011 1:47 pm

janesy86 wrote:
BDS Suspension wrote:All you need is proof of purchase and we should be able to get you fixed up. We will fully replace shocks up to 1 year after purchase for leakage or other non-trail damage failures. We have a seperate warranty for our shocks because obviously they are a wear item so it would be foolish for us to apply a lifetime warranty to them. You won't find anybody selling a shock of this nature and giving a lifetime warranty. The lifetime guarantee on the box is in reference to our suspension component warranty.

I am curious what shock cylinder # you have. A while ago we changed the raw cylinder that goes in the kit. The original was a 5266 and the new one is a 5251. You will find this # on the body of the cylinder near the mounting eye along with some other random production code #s.



Ok, I just looked thru every type of payment I had and found the receipt thru paypal. Bought on March 31st 2010.

So I suppose my only way of getting a replacement would be to just buy a new set thru you guys and then send you mine with receipt of purchase, once I get the new ones? Then I get a refund? I do need to drive this daily... and don't have stock shocks.

Also I checked out the # on the body of the shock and it is in fact the newer one (5251).


You might be able to find a distributor locally that could order them, or hopefully even has them in stock... bring in the receipt with the shocks, I assume they would swap them out and send the defectives to BDS for a credit. Just my assumption. Might want to call the distributor first.
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by OregTrailBlazin » Wed Feb 02, 2011 2:19 pm

BDS Suspension wrote:Adding to my post above explaining the 1 year...We try to make our warranty easy. Pretty much yes/no. I think "send it in so we can inspect it" is just a way to prolong a fore-gone conclusion.


janesy86 wrote: So I suppose my only way of getting a replacement would be to just buy a new set thru you guys and then send you mine with receipt of purchase, once I get the new ones? Then I get a refund? I do need to drive this daily... and don't have stock shocks.


I'm pretty sure they don't make you send them in, or that's what I was getting from his post. They never have with anything we've warranted. Some companies we deal with make you buy a new set and send yours in, and they give a credit to us, to give to you after they are inspected and deamed bad. That is a big pain in the ass as far as resale go! I've had people send back good shocks plenty of times with motor oil on them, its not so fun trying to explain they don't get money back because their shock wasn't bad! I have worked with BDS on warrantee's and never had a problem, just get on the phone with them, it's allot more effective than through a forum!
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by Blackout » Wed Feb 02, 2011 2:23 pm

BDS Suspension wrote:
bartonmd wrote:Having said that, this is from Bilstein:

Image

I'm still wondering where the 1-year warranty came from, though???


Interesting chart. I have not run across that before.

Adding to my post above explaining the 1 year...We try to make our warranty easy. Pretty much yes/no. I think "send it in so we can inspect it" is just a way to prolong a fore-gone conclusion. Almost always we know when we will/will not warranty something and I think that consistancy, in general, is appreciated by our customer and our dealers. With that said, if you wanted us to inspect something to better determine our course of action (within reason) I would say we would not turn you down. For the most part we rely on our dealers to be our eyes and ears on warranty claims. That is why we always encourage consumers to deal through a BDS dealer. These dealers will give you support before, during and after the sale. Many will have replacement parts in stock or the ability to get them within a few days.



Unless it's the urethane bushing for the shock eyelet that was missing out of a part pack last year. Still haven't heard from BDS about getting that replaced and I called you guys in December.
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by BDS Suspension » Wed Feb 02, 2011 2:39 pm

janesy86 wrote:
BDS Suspension wrote:All you need is proof of purchase and we should be able to get you fixed up. We will fully replace shocks up to 1 year after purchase for leakage or other non-trail damage failures. We have a seperate warranty for our shocks because obviously they are a wear item so it would be foolish for us to apply a lifetime warranty to them. You won't find anybody selling a shock of this nature and giving a lifetime warranty. The lifetime guarantee on the box is in reference to our suspension component warranty.

I am curious what shock cylinder # you have. A while ago we changed the raw cylinder that goes in the kit. The original was a 5266 and the new one is a 5251. You will find this # on the body of the cylinder near the mounting eye along with some other random production code #s.



Ok, I just looked thru every type of payment I had and found the receipt thru paypal. Bought on March 31st 2010.

So I suppose my only way of getting a replacement would be to just buy a new set thru you guys and then send you mine with receipt of purchase, once I get the new ones? Then I get a refund? I do need to drive this daily... and don't have stock shocks.

Also I checked out the # on the body of the shock and it is in fact the newer one (5251).


For you the best option is contacting your BDS dealer. They can get you a replacement and when it comes in (unless they have it in stock), they can contact you. Your downtime would be very minimal. You really need to talk to the dealer directly because each one handles there business a little different. Most will want to add your warranty part to their normal stocking orders so they can get one big shipment instead of a bunch of small ones.

Also, like one of the guys said...this forum is about the least effective way to get to us. Unfortunately, I don't have a lot of extra time in my day to be able to keep up with conversations here. I got on today because one of the guys requested my input. You have three viable options to get a quick answer...email/live chat our tech department, call tech directly or contact your dealer.
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by BDS Suspension » Wed Feb 02, 2011 3:03 pm

bartonmd wrote:It's not that I don't understand this stuff. I am an engineer, and deal quite a lot with warranty in my 9-5 job. My question is, why is the 1 year warranty not on your website, but the limited lifetime warranty is? I think the reason all of these people are feeling screwed is because your website would lead one to believe that stuff like this would be covered by the limited lifetime warranty. To your car warranty argument, what I am saying is; if you bought a car that you were told had a lifetime warranty, and after you bought it and had an issue, the car company said "even though we don't have it written or posted anywhere, your warranty is only 1 year."

So what I am saying is, post on your website that leaking shocks and the like is not covered under your lifetime warranty, but is covered under the 1 year warranty that you still need to post on your website with the limited lifetime shock warranty.

Mike


Mike, I am sorry you feel screwed. Really what it comes down to is stupid "legal" wording. If you look throughout our industry and even others, a limited lifetime warranty statement really leaves the door open for a broad range of interpretation. I would say that most companies only use the limited lifetime warranty claim as purely an empty selling feature. We try to go beyond that an actually honor it as a working warranty. Any company with a similar warranty can just as easily say not our fault, sorry about your luck. Really we had to come up with some sort of tangible limits to the warranty. The 1 year mark is a point when we go from more/less no questions asked to really looking closely at the part production as a whole to determine if it is more of a production error issue versus a premature wear issue, environmental issue (lots of salt, rust, etc) or a use issue. We also deal with other suspension suppliers through our warehouse division Truckmaster Distributing. We have dealt with other companys' warranties. We have experienced how "limited" other warranties are and I can honestly say we have one of the more relaxed warranties out there. Most others would probably give you 90 days (most likely implied not stated)...even then they would make you jump through hoops to the point you would wonder if it was worth it. I understand your argument and it has been noted to the appropriate people. If there is something additional you would like to hear from me please let me know.
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by bartonmd » Wed Feb 02, 2011 3:33 pm

BDS Suspension wrote:
bartonmd wrote:It's not that I don't understand this stuff. I am an engineer, and deal quite a lot with warranty in my 9-5 job. My question is, why is the 1 year warranty not on your website, but the limited lifetime warranty is? I think the reason all of these people are feeling screwed is because your website would lead one to believe that stuff like this would be covered by the limited lifetime warranty. To your car warranty argument, what I am saying is; if you bought a car that you were told had a lifetime warranty, and after you bought it and had an issue, the car company said "even though we don't have it written or posted anywhere, your warranty is only 1 year."

So what I am saying is, post on your website that leaking shocks and the like is not covered under your lifetime warranty, but is covered under the 1 year warranty that you still need to post on your website with the limited lifetime shock warranty.

Mike


Mike, I am sorry you feel screwed. Really what it comes down to is stupid "legal" wording. If you look throughout our industry and even others, a limited lifetime warranty statement really leaves the door open for a broad range of interpretation. I would say that most companies only use the limited lifetime warranty claim as purely an empty selling feature. We try to go beyond that an actually honor it as a working warranty. Any company with a similar warranty can just as easily say not our fault, sorry about your luck. Really we had to come up with some sort of tangible limits to the warranty. The 1 year mark is a point when we go from more/less no questions asked to really looking closely at the part production as a whole to determine if it is more of a production error issue versus a premature wear issue, environmental issue (lots of salt, rust, etc) or a use issue. We also deal with other suspension suppliers through our warehouse division Truckmaster Distributing. We have dealt with other companys' warranties. We have experienced how "limited" other warranties are and I can honestly say we have one of the more relaxed warranties out there. Most others would probably give you 90 days (most likely implied not stated)...even then they would make you jump through hoops to the point you would wonder if it was worth it. I understand your argument and it has been noted to the appropriate people. If there is something additional you would like to hear from me please let me know.


I don't feel screwed. I don't (currently) run your shocks.

The only reason I got into this conversation at all is, I went to bat for you and your warranty, based on what was available on your website (and past experience), and got informed of people who have had problems that haven't been taken care of (as mentioned above)... It then became apparent that there was this discrepancy about what was posted, and what was reality. I also found and posted the Bilstein picture above, saying it wasn't a big deal (though, I still consider a shock that leaves a drips on the ground a problem, even though a "film" is not). I also sent you the PM, letting you know that people were having issues, so you could drop by and set the record straight. I'm not trying to throw you under the bus here.

All I'm suggesting is, spell out the reality of the warranty, on the website.

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by BDS Suspension » Wed Feb 02, 2011 3:53 pm

Blackout wrote:Unless it's the urethane bushing for the shock eyelet that was missing out of a part pack last year. Still haven't heard from BDS about getting that replaced and I called you guys in December.

Sorry I missed your post the first time around. Did you talk with some here or a dealer?
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by BDS Suspension » Wed Feb 02, 2011 4:07 pm

bartonmd wrote:I don't feel screwed. I don't (currently) run your shocks.

The only reason I got into this conversation at all is, I went to bat for you and your warranty, based on what was available on your website (and past experience), and got informed of people who have had problems that haven't been taken care of (as mentioned above)... It then became apparent that there was this discrepancy about what was posted, and what was reality. I also found and posted the Bilstein picture above, saying it wasn't a big deal (though, I still consider a shock that leaves a drips on the ground a problem, even though a "film" is not). I also sent you the PM, letting you know that people were having issues, so you could drop by and set the record straight. I'm not trying to throw you under the bus here.

All I'm suggesting is, spell out the reality of the warranty, on the website.

Mike


My mistake. I thought you were having a specific issue. I would say a lot of the issues would easily be resolved by calling us or your dealer directly. While forums hold a wealth of knowledge, I think some guys do themselves a dis-service by not getting their facts and answer direct from the source.

To my knowledge, based on my PMs, I haven't been contact about any specific issues regarding shock warranty. As I stated before, I don't get on here enough to keep up with conversations so please don't assume l will jump when a topic is focused on issues with a product. It is best to contact us so we can address any issue directly and in a timely manner. If there are still people in need of some help the best bet is to contact their dealer or call direct to Ted who is the head of our tech department.
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by cbbryan » Mon Feb 14, 2011 1:26 pm

Why are there two size options for your shock boots? I want to make sure to chose the right ones. Also, any promo codes yet? Just curious cause there was a spot to put one.
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by BDS Suspension » Mon Feb 14, 2011 2:12 pm

5500 Series you will need 2-3/8" boots (part # 099xxx - depending on what color you want) and 9500 Series you will need 2" boots (only in black, #097520)

Sorry, don't have any promos going right now.
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by cbbryan » Mon Feb 14, 2011 2:42 pm

Dang, I was hoping for free shipping since my nearest dealer is 2 hours away.
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by Gordinho80 » Mon Oct 10, 2011 4:58 pm

Are my shocks supposed to look like this after just 1 year of use? They only went through 1 winter, and I didn't do much driving in in that winter.

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by HARDTRAILZ » Mon Oct 10, 2011 8:13 pm

http://bds-suspension.com/policies


Shock and Stabilizer Cylinders Limited Lifetime Warranty

BDS Suspension Co. warrants to the original retail purchaser that its shock and stabilizer cylinders are free from defects in material and workmanship for so long as they own the vehicle. Excluded from this warranty are the finish of the product and mounting bushings. Defects in material and workmanship do not include such things as dented cylinders or bent rods caused by obvious side impact, rust, worn or deformed bushings. A shock absorber is a wear item and over time will experience diminished damping resistance due to normal component wear. This is not a defect in material or workmanship and is therefore not warrantable
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Vehicle Year: 2006
Vehicle: Chevrolet TrailBlazer
DriveTrain: 4WD w/ Aftermarket Locker
Rank: Extreme Offroader

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