BOOM! Goes my transmission.....

[larryk]

Sigh....long day for me, subject line says it all. Actually.....it didnt go boom, just disappeared. Let me explain....and see if anyone here has had this happen.

2004 TB EXT with 4.2, 4L60E, 4x4, and recent 4.10 axle swap and tune. All systems have been great...although over the last few months, I had a "shudder" in my TCC, when locked, that was causing it to unlock... Kept cycling like that but nothing really special. Replaced the valve body a few months back, and it has been running VERY well. No DTC's typically....although every once in a while, Id get the "transmission part slipping" code....probably my shuddering TCC.

So today, Im driving to the Sox game to meet a coworker from out of state, expressway with the cruise set to 70ish with AC on. Out of the blue, tach goes wild....and bounces up to 4,500rpm. I immediately kill the cruise, and manually rev the motor....feels like neutral. OK....shift into neutral, back to drive....nothing. Drop down to third....nothing. Sooooo...I coast over to the side of the expressway. Come to a stop, put it in reverse....yup, nothing. Engine runs fine, no issues, AC nice and cold..... No puddles under the trans, no holes in the case, nothing. Seems like my tans decided to just float away. I did notice today there were 2-3 times....where the car made a metallic "sawing/rubbing" kind of sound, like when you used to put a trading card on the spokes of your bicycle. Only for a few seconds each time.....with no other symptoms. Oh, and when the car was idling on the side of the expressway, there was a "slight" bit of the same sound, but constant. When I started it up after the tow home....that noise was gone, but I still have nothing. Pulled the dipstick, and the fluid was perfect...no glittery metal particles in it or burned smell.

Soooo.....any ideas? Anyone want to take a wager on what part died? I have not been able, or will, run a pressure test. I will try to get under it later this week to see if the convertor is rotating with the engine. In the Helms manual, the only thing losing ALL gears diagnoses to is that the convertor isnt bolted on. Anyone shear off the convertor bolts? Strip the input shaft splines? Sun gear shell strip the splines?

This is a weird one as there was literally no boom, weird noises, blown lines, slipping in gear....nothing. It just stopped transmitting power through it.

I didnt make it to the game either

[BC backroader]

Check that recently installed 4.10 rear end. You'd get the same "no go" symtems if that's the fail point. Simple test; put it in 4WD to see if the front axles are being driven.

[Jrgunn5150]

Check that recently installed 4.10 rear end. You'd get the same "no go" symtems if that's the fail point. Simple test; put it in 4WD to see if the front axles are being driven.

I agree, I would suspect the axle here, perhaps the case.

[Aries]

Check that recently installed 4.10 rear end. You'd get the same "no go" symtems if that's the fail point. Simple test; put it in 4WD to see if the front axles are being driven.

I agree, I would suspect the axle here, perhaps the case.

Nope, non-of the above. Your Trans took a shit. Same thing happened to me, I was driving down the road and as I started to go up a hill it felt like the TB went into neutral. Same sounds as you described and no fwd or reverse.

[Jrgunn5150]

Check that recently installed 4.10 rear end. You'd get the same "no go" symtems if that's the fail point. Simple test; put it in 4WD to see if the front axles are being driven.

I agree, I would suspect the axle here, perhaps the case.

Nope, non-of the above. Your Trans took a shit. Same thing happened to me, I was driving down the road and as I started to go up a hill it felt like the TB went into neutral. Same sounds as you described and no fwd or reverse.

Really? That's wild. I've never had an auto just fail out of the clear blue sky with no action in any direction. Good to know it comes with no warning at all lol.

[SamL02]

Mine did the same thing. Absolutely no warning at all.

[larryk]

Check that recently installed 4.10 rear end. You'd get the same "no go" symtems if that's the fail point. Simple test; put it in 4WD to see if the front axles are being driven.

I agree, I would suspect the axle here, perhaps the case.[/quote]

Nope, non-of the above. Your Trans took a shit. Same thing happened to me, I was driving down the road and as I started to go up a hill it felt like the TB went into neutral. Same sounds as you described and no fwd or reverse.[/quote]


Really? That's wild. I've never had an auto just fail out of the clear blue sky with no action in any direction. Good to know it comes with no warning at all lol.[/quote]


That's exactly what happened.....was driving on the highway with the cruise on, doing 70-75...and just lost the transmission completely. No forward gears or reverse, and no codes either.

Upon a day of investigation...Looks like a pump failure. No changes in fluid level with the engine running or off. I have no clue what could have killed it, or how, as there was no stress or abuse going on now, or recently.

The axle is perfect, and no issues with the transfer case. I've never had either of those go out with no warning on any vehicle I've owned. Fwiw...the 4.10 gears are less stressful on the drivetrain than the 3.42s would be. Simple leverage

I ordered a new trans today, and it's being built this week. Hopefully have it Friday and get it in this weekend. New converter and full cooler flush too...

I DESPISE automatic transmissions fit just this reason. Even if meticulously maintained, they just crap out with no warning. I wish we had a manual option for these trucks, as I'd get doing that immediately.

Sighhhh

[Jrgunn5150]

The axle is perfect, and no issues with the transfer case. I've never had either of those go out with no warning on any vehicle I've owned. Fwiw...the 4.10 gears are less stressful on the drivetrain than the 3.42s would be. Simple leverage

Sighhhh

The idea wasn't that the rearend went bad for no reason lol, just that it was your most recent change. Well, good luck with the new one.

[Regulator1175]

As far as the rear end is concerned, you could rule that out just by looking to see of the drive shaft is spinning. That isn't the issue though.

No movement in any gear is a pump failure, or total loss of fluid. Remove transmission and rebuild, or refill pan and find the leak. If out of fluid, avoid running the engine until the transmission is refilled to avoid pump damage. To check for pump failure, check fluid level with the engine off, then start the engine and recheck fluid level. If level does not go down when engine is running, the pump is broken.

[v7guy]

Matt, do you have any write ups of the trans builds you've done? The successes and failures and the likely causes of each. There's a lot of good info and experience there I'm sure. I'd like to hear your thoughts.

Pump failure does sound like the most likely cause now that you bring it up, I hadn't considered that when I first read the post.

Larry, have you got a chance to pull out the trans and take a gander? Did you change anything up in the valve body when you refreshed it?

Apparently the sintered pump gear likes to pop on the 4L60e. Some guys get away with popping in a new pump and reusing everything, some guys replace the converter and the pump and quite a few rebuild the whole thing, or end up rebuilding the whole thing cause particles from the broke pump got into the trans and eventually killed it. Something to consider I suppose.

[NC_IslandRunner]

Pump failed on me a few yrs back, lucky all I had to replace was pump.

[larryk]

Matt, do you have any write ups of the trans builds you've done? The successes and failures and the likely causes of each. There's a lot of good info and experience there I'm sure. I'd like to hear your thoughts.

Pump failure does sound like the most likely cause now that you bring it up, I hadn't considered that when I first read the post.

Larry, have you got a chance to pull out the trans and take a gander? Did you change anything up in the valve body when you refreshed it?

Apparently the sintered pump gear likes to pop on the 4L60e. Some guys get away with popping in a new pump and reusing everything, some guys replace the converter and the pump and quite a few rebuild the whole thing, or end up rebuilding the whole thing cause particles from the broke pump got into the trans and eventually killed it. Something to consider I suppose.

Im about 99% sure that the pump took a crap. I wasnt able to throw a guage on it, and didnt bother pulling the cooler lines to check....but the test of fluid level changes running indicates it died.

I pulled a lot of stuff Wednesday night in anticiaption of the R&R this weekend (downpipe, driveshafts, convertor bolts, bottom four mount bolts, etc etc etc), and when I drained the fluid....nice and red, no glitter, no burned smell. I dropped the pan in the hope it was something simple....such as the boost valve c-clip failing or something.....nope.....prisitne. There was NOTHING in the pan at all....no glitter, no parts, nothing on the magnet (changed the fluid maybe 6 months ago), and the filter was perfect.

So, while it is more than likely just a pump failure, since the truck has maybe 80K on it, and had some other annoying symptoms (ie convertor shudder/unlock), and it was throwing an 1870 code (slipping internal parts), Im also about 99% sure the convertor was having issues for the last number of months (prior to my fluid chang or maybe this was symptom of the pump starting to fail?), Im not sure how reliable that was going to be (already put in a rebuilt valve body). That being said.....the hassle of having to pull the trans anyhow to replace a pump/convertor made it easy to just get a good performance rebuild to drop in. I also took the opportunity to upgrade to a 4L65E with the 5 pinion planets, a beast shell, performance frictions/steels/band, a bunch of Sonnax and Transgo updates, a corvette servo, and a rebuilt convertor. Im also changing out the cooler lines, as my old ones years ago sprung a pinhole leak and I had to replace a section with rubber hose(!) which I NEVER trusted...even if it worked. Im sure just putting a new pump in there would have fixed my issue, but frankly, I can never leave enough alone and do the mnimum...have to always step up to the best. Probably why I spent two hours prepping, deburring, and painting the new trans. I have issues.

Ill be hitting the swapout this weekend, so wish me luck. Oh, while Im in there, I am also changing all the seals on the transfer case...and the rear output shaft bushing. Why not, right?

[Aries]

I'll be hitting the swapout this weekend, so wish me luck.

Wish you luck , Dude your swaping the trans in a TB'er not going over Niagara Falls in a barrel. Not only does it sound like you have the concept of R&R a transmission but it sounds like you have the ability to get it right.

[larryk]

This would be what I did tonight. Old on the right, new on the left in front of transfer case.

Autopsy happening tomorrow. I don't see any obvious carnage....other than what looks like the "dimples"on the inner face of the converter machined down. Look pretty shiny, but see no marks on pump bolts or any shavings....so maybe that was factory?

Lots done...Lots more to go

[v7guy]

Don't reckon you got her all buttoned up do ya?

Any tips or tricks you discovered to make things go smoothly for the uninitiated?

[larryk]

Welll.....as assumed, the pump took a crap. As I noted in my OP, there was absolutely NO signs this was coming....just died. As you can see from the pic, the pump rotor was in about 7 pieces I could identify. Upon my first look....counted only 12 of the 13(!) vanes, so I had to dig some more. It was actually lodged in the pump inlet, between the pump itself and that rubber grommet that holds the filter in. I couldn't account for a small part of the rotor itself, so Im not sure where it went. I put new lines on and flushed the cooler, so there is no chance of it being lodged in the lines somewhere. *May* be in the converter.....who knows as I replaced that as well.

New trans in, all nice and painted...along with the adapter and the Tcase....which itself got all new seals and rear output bushing.

All in all, not too bad of a job, but I think I spent more time cleaning/painting/prepping than I did on the actual install. LOL

[larryk]

Don't reckon you got her all buttoned up do ya?

Any tips or tricks you discovered to make things go smoothly for the uninitiated?

Yup, its in

Tips/tricks....? Hmmm....nothing really too bad, other than the exhaust downpipe. Kind of a PITA to get at the three nuts that hold it on....and I luckily didnt snap any studs. I *did* end up having a stud come out rather than the nut come off....but that was an easy replacement. I also replaced the flanged nuts with stainless....and a glob of anti-seize, just so if there is a next time.... Oh, I also snapped the studs off on the converter to rear pipe connection. The studs on the rear section are like wheel studs, as they are "pressed in/knurled". I had to hammer out the old ones with a drift, then I drilled out the holes to accept a 12mm bolt. Problem solved.

The two top bolts on the trans were tough to get to, ONLY becuase the AC/Heater(?) pipe crossover is bolted to both of them, AND the plastic circle retainers to hold the vents pipes are right in the way. I fought with these, which isnt easy to do when its sitting 2 feet away down a tunnel. I did pick up a "Big Larry" LED flashlight at NAPA. It has a magnetic base and is bright as hell. SUPER useful to light up the tunnel as I was working up there. Seriously one of the best time savers/convenience items Ive bought in a while. Its big advantage over a typical work/trouble light is that it is so compact....doesnt get in the way in the limited space area.

Id also suggest to ALWAYS replace the cooler lines as well, as long as you are in there. The stock ones corrode prety easily, and a few years back, mine actually broke through and sprayed fluid everywhere. I replaced with a section of teflon lined rubber hose, but that was always in the back of my mind that this was half ass. The new lines were cleaned and clearcoated....so lets hope they last this time. Picked up a full set (4pcs) at Rockauto, along with new transmission fittings and a package of the clips those connectors use. They should be replaced any time you remove them, and the two on the radiator are the only remaining fittings. They worked well. Put assembly lube on the lines....any where that they slide into the connectors. It helps to keep the orings from getting scuffed and creating a leak.

The converter bolts are a PITA to get to. Not like an old 350/400 trans with the dust cover on the bottom of the trans. There is a small hole in the back of the oil pan you can fit a socket through to get to them. I used loctite on them, and the trans to adapter and adapter to tcase bolts as well.

One small pointer....when you are removing the crossmember that holds the whole thing up....the front to back bolts (as opposed to the four small bolts you can see from the bottom of it) on the drivers side are tough to get out with the ABS pump right there, the most outer of the two especially. To make it simple to get back in.....I ground the flange flat with ONE of the flats on the bolt....slid right back in upon install.

Get a new downpipe doughnut as well, as you dont want this to leak and have to go back in. I also took this opportunity to change the rear O2 sensor, the Tcase seals, and the output shaft bushing in the rear. SIMPLE stuff to get to when you have it all apart...PITA if you have to go back in later. OH YES.....one other item. The Tcase to adapter gasket. You are NOT supposed to use RTV, per the shop manual, to replace, or use in addition to this gasket. I went to pick one up at NAPA...closest one was in Wisconsin, and wouldnt be in until Tuesday. Went to the local Carquest regional warehouse, which has everything....EXCEPT this gasket. Same deal.....couldnt get in until this week sometime. Everyone had the 6 bolt version for the Silverado type Tcase....nobody (local) had the 5 bolt from the Trailblazer. The shop manual said to replace this gasket IF it tears.....LOL......of course it tore upon removal. Thankfully the place I bought the trans from had one, and I picked it up Friday

That's it. If you ever pulled a tans before, nothing special about this one....take your time, and its just a matter of unbolting and replacing items.

[larryk]

Oh, just to follow up on my comment about the "machined down" dimples on the converter shell...... That is in fact how it comes from the factory...so no worries. My replacement converter (although painted), had the same machined down dimples...

[Regulator1175]

Matt, do you have any write ups of the trans builds you've done? The successes and failures and the likely causes of each. There's a lot of good info and experience there I'm sure. I'd like to hear your thoughts.

Pump failure does sound like the most likely cause now that you bring it up, I hadn't considered that when I first read the post.

Larry, have you got a chance to pull out the trans and take a gander? Did you change anything up in the valve body when you refreshed it?

Apparently the sintered pump gear likes to pop on the 4L60e. Some guys get away with popping in a new pump and reusing everything, some guys replace the converter and the pump and quite a few rebuild the whole thing, or end up rebuilding the whole thing cause particles from the broke pump got into the trans and eventually killed it. Something to consider I suppose.

I don't have anything written up. But I can offer some words of experience to anyone that wants to tackle it.

!) read read read. find a good youtube video (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EkyPoeA ... WL&index=2), and make sure you thoroughly understand what you are doing.
2) buy tools. Yes trans work can be done with hand tools, there are a few things that you have to get creative with but all in all it can be done. However a few transmission specific tools will make it a lot easier. (Transmission vice Spring compressor clutch spring compressor
3) don't get carried away with your upgrades. Some upgrades don't work with others, look into compatibility and make sure they work together.
4) buy these Input drup seals These are the most difficult part to install correctly without tearing them, and they are a very important set of seals. This part solves that problem.
5)don't be afraid. I know it can be a rather scary and daunting task, but in the end it is something that can be done at home in your garage and save yourself a lot of money. Go buy a trans from a junkyard and get your hands into it. It is a lot of fun!

[Regulator1175]

Larry, why did you pull the exhaust? I have been able to remove/replace without having the exhaust out.