Auxiliary cooling products
7 posts
• Page 1 of 1
PCMforless makes a bolt on transmission cooling kit.
-
06MidnightBlue - Addict
- Posts: 597
- Joined: Tue Jul 12, 2011 4:14 am
- Location: CA, Sacramento
- Name: Jeff
- Vehicle Year: 2006
- Vehicle: Chevrolet TrailBlazer
- DriveTrain: 4WD
She has 3.73 gears - split the difference on that one.
The wife is already complaining that the mechanical fan isnt cutting it in keeping the a/c cold at a stand-still, so I have been looking at what its going to take to fab in an e-fan pusher/puller combo run off a Blue Sea Safety Hub and an aux trans cooler on a 180* bypass.
The wife is already complaining that the mechanical fan isnt cutting it in keeping the a/c cold at a stand-still, so I have been looking at what its going to take to fab in an e-fan pusher/puller combo run off a Blue Sea Safety Hub and an aux trans cooler on a 180* bypass.
-
80Flareside - Cruiser
- Posts: 12
- Joined: Wed Aug 08, 2012 7:58 am
- Name: Matt
- Vehicle Year: 2007
- Vehicle: Chevrolet Trailblazer EXT
- DriveTrain: 4WD
PCMforless sells electronic fan kits and a transmission cooler kit for our platform.
-
06MidnightBlue - Addict
- Posts: 597
- Joined: Tue Jul 12, 2011 4:14 am
- Location: CA, Sacramento
- Name: Jeff
- Vehicle Year: 2006
- Vehicle: Chevrolet TrailBlazer
- DriveTrain: 4WD
The only time my I ever noticed my air not working well was on a really hot day >95 with me riding down the interstate pushing 80. When I dropped back down closer to 70 it started cooling again fine.
"Please consider a search before posting. Folks on this site PIONEERED functional offroad use of these trucks."
The answer to many common lift questions can be found here
My Build Thread
The answer to many common lift questions can be found here
My Build Thread
-
navigator - Moderator
- Posts: 4651
- Joined: Wed Mar 09, 2011 10:16 am
- Location: NC, Winnabow
- Name: Chris
- Vehicle Year: 2006
- Vehicle: Chevrolet TrailBlazer
- DriveTrain: 4WD
- Rank: Trail Ready
I hate to be the new guy coming in and saying things like this just aren't up to par, but I saw the PCM kit and its way to paint by numbers for me. Sure, its easy and most people who have stayed in a Holiday Inn Express can install that kit, but it appears to be far from the best or even a mediocre set-up.
Im definitely not sold on that shroud design. I cant imagine that being that close allows for very much heat transfer to take place anywhere but directly in front of the fan. Looks like they are just drawing more cfm (but thats questionable as PCMforless does not identify which SPAL fan is used) over a smaller surface area, and there would be little, if any, increase in cooling capacity.
Their write-up also suggests that they use scotch locks (insulation displacement wire taps) to tie into the factory harness and get power. Scotch locks are just about the worst thing you can do to a car. Sure, Ive used them too, but I was 19 and it was for crappy fog lights on a '86 4 cly mustang. Since then Ive learned that there are much better, more reliable ways to make electrical connections. That they suggest scotch-locks rather than doing it right using solder and adhesive wall heat shrink should concern everyone.
Second, what part of the harness are they tying into? Auto manufacturers use the lightest gauge wire they can get away with. Over gauging only adds costs that quickly add up over the course of tens of thousands of cars and trucks. SPAL doesn't list the current draw on their site, but a 14" fan can pull as much as 25 amps, which means it should be connected with no less than a 12 gauge wire. If you aren't 100% positive that that power supply wire can carry the extra load, and is fused properly, your asking for a fire.
The Blue Sea Safety Hub in my truck gets power straight from the battery via a 1/0 cable and 280 amp mega fuse. The smaller items like Halogen headlight harness (the oem 18 ga wires dont support that much draw) and radio get the power from one of six dedicated 1-30 amp fused circuits with the appropriate size wire. The bigger items like electric fans, electric water pump, Anderson-Type winch plugs (front and rear) all have dedicated circuits wired and fused as appropriate through one of four 30-200 amp terminals. Doing it this way accomplishes 2 things. Since the sum of all 10 circuits is greater than 280 amps, I can never pull more than that, eliminating the possibility to overload the supply cable. Additionally, I have zero risk of overloading a factory wire by pulling power from somewhere between the battery and a fuse. Down side is that the hub, mega-fuse, cable, and cable terminals ran $200 on their own. Upside is that my truck wont catch fire in the middle of the woods while winching myself out of a mud hole causing me to hang my head in shame, and be towed out by a chevy, or even worse, a jeep.
Third, Im not sure what a "water housing is" (maybe its a chevy term for thermostat housing?) but they state that you drill and tap it to put in the thermo-switch. I hope its something that can be removed for the task, otherwise where to all the chips go? There is also nothing that confirms that a demand for a/c will kick the fan on, which even the most basic fan controller should do.
They state that this fan kit has been "credited with" 12-18 HP at the wheel, and in the 2002-2005 Performance Package 2 the intake adds another 10-15 HP. That totals 22-33 RW HP on a 291 HP motor pushing through a slush box transmission, transfer case, and rear end. A Ford AOD automatic will rob up to 40% of what a motor puts to it. Even if the 4L60 only steals 25%, PCM is then suggesting that these two modifications are 29 - 42 HP (10% - 14%) add to the crank. Excuse me if that without dyno sheets, I think their credibility is extremely strained.
Spacing the fan(s) back off the radiator with a proper shroud provides better cooling by allowing the fan to draw air from 100% of the surface area of the radiator, and allow more air to flow through on its own while driving. A good fan controller will stage the cooling, only doing as much as needed. FlexLites variable controller will turn on at 60% at the set temp, and increase to 100% over the next 10* or if the A/C is turned on. Cutting an inch or two out of the radiator hose and installing a sender adapter makes getting an accurate water temp reading very easy.
Stuffing a trans-cooler in front of the radiator and A/C condenser could make things worse by introducing another obstacle for the air, and pre-heating it before it ever makes it to the radiator, so a pusher fan is always good idea to help keep the cfm up. The pusher fan can be controlled by a temp sender plumbed directly into the line feeding the cooler. Seeing as how we live in New England, and there are definitely days in the winter when I dont want the additional active or passive cooling, a bypass is plumbed in between the aux cooler and the factory lines.
By plumbing a bypass into the return line the transmission is sending oil to the radiator first, which does two things. In warm weather it cools it the same as the engine cooler, then, if the oil is still > 180* it hits the aux cooler. If upon exiting the aux cooler it is still too warm, the fan will kick on to cool it even further. In cold weather, the trans still circulates through the radiator, which at first, helps to warm up the transmission to proper operating temp. So long as that oil exits the radiator at less than 180* the bypass remains closed, the fan stays off, and its sent right back to the trans.
Bottom line is that doing it the right way increases the overall cooling capacity greatly, but only when appropriate, and without stressing other parts of the system.
Im definitely not sold on that shroud design. I cant imagine that being that close allows for very much heat transfer to take place anywhere but directly in front of the fan. Looks like they are just drawing more cfm (but thats questionable as PCMforless does not identify which SPAL fan is used) over a smaller surface area, and there would be little, if any, increase in cooling capacity.
Their write-up also suggests that they use scotch locks (insulation displacement wire taps) to tie into the factory harness and get power. Scotch locks are just about the worst thing you can do to a car. Sure, Ive used them too, but I was 19 and it was for crappy fog lights on a '86 4 cly mustang. Since then Ive learned that there are much better, more reliable ways to make electrical connections. That they suggest scotch-locks rather than doing it right using solder and adhesive wall heat shrink should concern everyone.
Second, what part of the harness are they tying into? Auto manufacturers use the lightest gauge wire they can get away with. Over gauging only adds costs that quickly add up over the course of tens of thousands of cars and trucks. SPAL doesn't list the current draw on their site, but a 14" fan can pull as much as 25 amps, which means it should be connected with no less than a 12 gauge wire. If you aren't 100% positive that that power supply wire can carry the extra load, and is fused properly, your asking for a fire.
The Blue Sea Safety Hub in my truck gets power straight from the battery via a 1/0 cable and 280 amp mega fuse. The smaller items like Halogen headlight harness (the oem 18 ga wires dont support that much draw) and radio get the power from one of six dedicated 1-30 amp fused circuits with the appropriate size wire. The bigger items like electric fans, electric water pump, Anderson-Type winch plugs (front and rear) all have dedicated circuits wired and fused as appropriate through one of four 30-200 amp terminals. Doing it this way accomplishes 2 things. Since the sum of all 10 circuits is greater than 280 amps, I can never pull more than that, eliminating the possibility to overload the supply cable. Additionally, I have zero risk of overloading a factory wire by pulling power from somewhere between the battery and a fuse. Down side is that the hub, mega-fuse, cable, and cable terminals ran $200 on their own. Upside is that my truck wont catch fire in the middle of the woods while winching myself out of a mud hole causing me to hang my head in shame, and be towed out by a chevy, or even worse, a jeep.
Third, Im not sure what a "water housing is" (maybe its a chevy term for thermostat housing?) but they state that you drill and tap it to put in the thermo-switch. I hope its something that can be removed for the task, otherwise where to all the chips go? There is also nothing that confirms that a demand for a/c will kick the fan on, which even the most basic fan controller should do.
They state that this fan kit has been "credited with" 12-18 HP at the wheel, and in the 2002-2005 Performance Package 2 the intake adds another 10-15 HP. That totals 22-33 RW HP on a 291 HP motor pushing through a slush box transmission, transfer case, and rear end. A Ford AOD automatic will rob up to 40% of what a motor puts to it. Even if the 4L60 only steals 25%, PCM is then suggesting that these two modifications are 29 - 42 HP (10% - 14%) add to the crank. Excuse me if that without dyno sheets, I think their credibility is extremely strained.
Spacing the fan(s) back off the radiator with a proper shroud provides better cooling by allowing the fan to draw air from 100% of the surface area of the radiator, and allow more air to flow through on its own while driving. A good fan controller will stage the cooling, only doing as much as needed. FlexLites variable controller will turn on at 60% at the set temp, and increase to 100% over the next 10* or if the A/C is turned on. Cutting an inch or two out of the radiator hose and installing a sender adapter makes getting an accurate water temp reading very easy.
Stuffing a trans-cooler in front of the radiator and A/C condenser could make things worse by introducing another obstacle for the air, and pre-heating it before it ever makes it to the radiator, so a pusher fan is always good idea to help keep the cfm up. The pusher fan can be controlled by a temp sender plumbed directly into the line feeding the cooler. Seeing as how we live in New England, and there are definitely days in the winter when I dont want the additional active or passive cooling, a bypass is plumbed in between the aux cooler and the factory lines.
By plumbing a bypass into the return line the transmission is sending oil to the radiator first, which does two things. In warm weather it cools it the same as the engine cooler, then, if the oil is still > 180* it hits the aux cooler. If upon exiting the aux cooler it is still too warm, the fan will kick on to cool it even further. In cold weather, the trans still circulates through the radiator, which at first, helps to warm up the transmission to proper operating temp. So long as that oil exits the radiator at less than 180* the bypass remains closed, the fan stays off, and its sent right back to the trans.
Bottom line is that doing it the right way increases the overall cooling capacity greatly, but only when appropriate, and without stressing other parts of the system.
Last edited by 80Flareside on Thu Aug 09, 2012 1:27 pm, edited 1 time in total.
-
80Flareside - Cruiser
- Posts: 12
- Joined: Wed Aug 08, 2012 7:58 am
- Name: Matt
- Vehicle Year: 2007
- Vehicle: Chevrolet Trailblazer EXT
- DriveTrain: 4WD
80Flareside wrote:I hate to be the new guy coming in and saying things like this just aren't up to par, but I saw the PCM kit and its way to paint by numbers for me.
Based on your last post... you should fit in fine here. Always glad to have another knowledgeable mind around here.
-
Trail X - Founder
- Posts: 9925
- Joined: Mon Sep 07, 2009 10:22 pm
- Location: VA, Roanoke
- Name: James Downing
- Vehicle Year: 2005
- Vehicle: Chevrolet TrailBlazer
- DriveTrain: 4WD w/ Aftermarket Locker
- Rank: Expedition Guide
I think you will do just fine here. Possibly help out on some ideas floating around s well.
Welcome
Welcome
they've always worked for me.
-
HARDTRAILZ - Moderator
- Posts: 6342
- Joined: Sat Sep 12, 2009 1:49 am
- Location: IN, Batesville
- Name: Kyle
- Vehicle Year: 2006
- Vehicle: Chevrolet TrailBlazer
- DriveTrain: 4WD w/ Aftermarket Locker
- Rank: Extreme Offroader
7 posts
• Page 1 of 1