Offroad Trailblazers and Envoys

Fixing my steering today...

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by fishsticks » Mon Oct 31, 2011 2:27 pm

I needed to go get more tie rods today. Sigh.

After a bit of online searching last night (and cursing over the lack of Compnine's existence) my Google-Fu put me on the trail of this...

Image

Behold, an 07 Silverado 2500HD tie rod!


... and look at this!

Image

Also, crawling under the truck reveals it's also compatible lengthwise! It looks like I'll need to drill out the knuckle though.

BACK TO THE GARAGE WITH ME! :viking: I'll report more as I find it today.
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by bartonmd » Mon Oct 31, 2011 2:42 pm

How are you going to drill out the knuckle for that taper?

http://www.speedwaymotors.com/Tapered-B ... ,2918.html
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by fishsticks » Mon Oct 31, 2011 3:37 pm

I'm going to cheat.

The 3/4 ton TRE threads are 14mm and the taper ends in 17mm. The stock TRE threads are 10mm and taper to 13mm.

I'm going to drill a 17mm opening 5/8" in and then step to 14mm. I realize this puts extra strain on the stud, but we're still just as strong if not stronger than stock.

I'm considering flipping the TRE to the top of the knuckle now, but I need to see if there's enough material on top to make a 17mm hole viable. I also need to run over to the other house and grab my calipers so I can stop "estimating" with open end wrenches.
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by fishsticks » Mon Oct 31, 2011 3:42 pm

A few more pics...


Max outer angle.

Image


Max inner angle.

Image

Old.

Image

New.

Image
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by Trail X » Mon Oct 31, 2011 3:46 pm

Do they make those tie rods with the 16mm inner thread option? Or is this going to be a 2002 only?
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by fishsticks » Mon Oct 31, 2011 3:49 pm

JamesDowning wrote:Do they make those tie rods with the 16mm inner thread option? Or is this going to be a 2002 only?



Interestingly enough, while I'm equipped with the early 14mm, the threads on the rack side of my inner tie rods are 18mm. What size are they on the 16mm?

I also ran across the fact that H3s underwent a similar 14mm to 16mm conversion mid production. There may be some answers there as well.
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by Trail X » Mon Oct 31, 2011 3:55 pm

You know, I don't think I've measured it. I thought someone said it was the same size... I'm sure Bill knows off hand.
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by bartonmd » Mon Oct 31, 2011 4:53 pm

fishsticks wrote:I'm going to cheat.

The 3/4 ton TRE threads are 14mm and the taper ends in 17mm. The stock TRE threads are 10mm and taper to 13mm.

I'm going to drill a 17mm opening 5/8" in and then step to 14mm. I realize this puts extra strain on the stud, but we're still just as strong if not stronger than stock.

I'm considering flipping the TRE to the top of the knuckle now, but I need to see if there's enough material on top to make a 17mm hole viable. I also need to run over to the other house and grab my calipers so I can stop "estimating" with open end wrenches.


eh... I'm not sure how that's going to work.. You'd have to do what you propose, then take a die grinder in there and taper out the part that's going to hit in the middle, all the way down to not taking anything out at the bottom (which I guess is the top)... Being that new knuckles are almost certainly more than the $80 you're going to have to spend anyway, doing them right (after you replace them and the tie rod ends), why not just do it right to begin with?

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by fishsticks » Mon Oct 31, 2011 6:00 pm

bartonmd wrote:
fishsticks wrote:I'm going to cheat.

The 3/4 ton TRE threads are 14mm and the taper ends in 17mm. The stock TRE threads are 10mm and taper to 13mm.

I'm going to drill a 17mm opening 5/8" in and then step to 14mm. I realize this puts extra strain on the stud, but we're still just as strong if not stronger than stock.

I'm considering flipping the TRE to the top of the knuckle now, but I need to see if there's enough material on top to make a 17mm hole viable. I also need to run over to the other house and grab my calipers so I can stop "estimating" with open end wrenches.


eh... I'm not sure how that's going to work.. You'd have to do what you propose, then take a die grinder in there and taper out the part that's going to hit in the middle, all the way down to not taking anything out at the bottom (which I guess is the top)... Being that new knuckles are almost certainly more than the $80 you're going to have to spend anyway, doing them right (after you replace them and the tie rod ends), why not just do it right to begin with?

Mike



I found a step-less cone shaped drill bit at good old HF today. I'm using it to ream out a nicely shaped hole that matches the taper of the TRE. I of course am trying to do this in between answering phone calls/emails for work, and I totally forgot my corded drill at the other house, so I'm using the battery powered one.

It's slow going, but it's coming along.
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by Diacom » Mon Oct 31, 2011 6:54 pm

What about a straight drill through and use a tapered bushing?
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by v7guy » Mon Oct 31, 2011 7:20 pm

Does the taper on drill match the TRE?
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by bgwolfpack » Mon Oct 31, 2011 8:18 pm

Donny, why not pull the steering rack out of a newer wreck and get the correct upgrade?
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by Trail X » Mon Oct 31, 2011 9:12 pm

Diacom wrote:What about a straight drill through and use a tapered bushing?


That could potentially work if the bushing was hard enough, and was a C, so that tightening the nut on the tie rod would expand the bushing into the knuckle.
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by fishsticks » Mon Oct 31, 2011 9:24 pm

bgwolfpack wrote:Donny, why not pull the steering rack out of a newer wreck and get the correct upgrade?



Because the 16mm TREs are still curved, the inners still have a ridiculously thin section at the ball joint, and I'm tired of replacing broken ones. For my mission, it's not the correct upgrade. These are straight, have much less exposed thread area (the weak part), are a DREAM to adjust compared to ours, are cheaper, more readily available (turns out they fit ALL recent full size trucks and vans), and will dovetail nicely with my NEXT mod.

If I break standard full size TREs, it's only going to take out the inner, not the outer AND the inner like ours do. Also, I can order these:

Image



To answer the other question, the bit is within 1 degree of the TRE taper. I ended up running a 1/2" bit down through from the top, then opened it up with a 9/16" bit. Then I ran a 5/8" bit down in stages and followed it with the tapered bit. I cut a little at a time and then test fit the outer TRE until I had good seating and no wiggling before tightening it down. The bottom 1/3rd of the hole required no resizing.

Some pics:

I tried to get a good shot showing the taper of the new hole...

Image


Through from the top.

Image


The whole thing.

Image


I have it roughed in for alignment right now. I had to unbolt the camber plate and pry it outwards to get my tire to move back forward, so I'll need an alignment anyway. Also, my LCA bushings are shot.

I got the one side done today, I'll try and get the other one done tomorrow. I'll keep it on surface streets for a week or so and keep a sharp eye on everything for oddities.
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by Trail X » Mon Oct 31, 2011 9:43 pm

Very cool. Looks like the pieced together ones Alek was dreaming about a while ago.
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by fishsticks » Mon Oct 31, 2011 10:03 pm

JamesDowning wrote:Very cool. Looks like the pieced together ones Alek was dreaming about a while ago.



I wish I'd known, I'd have compared notes with him.


Another test drive around the block has convinced me there's something very wrong with my front passenger LCA, as the tire is hitting the slider again. I'm not sure if I completely disintegrated the front bushing or what but there's an easy inch of slop in it. I'm ordering a new one tonight rather than put it off any longer.
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by OregTrailBlazin » Tue Nov 01, 2011 12:54 pm

Nice mod Fish!! Seems like one a few of us could use, suprised Roadies not here yet.. You should have bought the Taper cutter though, I would have bought if from you for a slight discount, then sold it to the next person to do the mod. Get it passed around all of the US before its done..
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by bartonmd » Tue Nov 01, 2011 12:59 pm

Donny,

Why didn't you go from the bottom, like stock? I realize this is more straight with the lift, but not being at the angle of the lower control arm is going to cause toe issues through the wheel travel...

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by fishsticks » Tue Nov 01, 2011 1:07 pm

OregTrailBlazin wrote:Nice mod Fish!! Seems like one a few of us could use, suprised Roadies not here yet.. You should have bought the Taper cutter though, I would have bought if from you for a slight discount, then sold it to the next person to do the mod. Get it passed around all of the US before its done..



There's a good chance I still will pick it up just to get them perfect. Right now they are good, and the truck is still down while I wait for new LCAs to show up.

I'm stretched a bit thin right now as well... If I could get a couple clients to pay on their invoices I'd order it today.


Why didn't you go from the bottom, like stock? I realize this is more straight with the lift, but not being at the angle of the lower control arm is going to cause toe issues through the wheel travel...


My tie rods have always been at differing angles than my LCAs. :scratch: It's more pronounced now, but the LCAs are going to be moving downwards soon anyway. :mrgreen: That should fix the issue.
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85 Hilux - 3RZ, dual cases, caged, 40s, chromo everything
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by bartonmd » Tue Nov 01, 2011 1:09 pm

fishsticks wrote:
My tie rods have always been at differing angles than my LCAs. :scratch: It's more pronounced now, but the LCAs are going to be moving downwards soon anyway. :mrgreen: That should fix the issue.


Yeah, they're not exactly the same, stock, but they're in the same neighborhood...

But if your lowers are moving down, so are your knuckles, which will make things a lot closer to being "right"...

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