Offroad Trailblazers and Envoys

Propelene Glycol Coolant

Trailblazer and Envoy related, but not off-road related...

by Trail X » Tue Jun 22, 2010 5:08 pm

Does anyone have experience with this type of coolant? I was recommended it by another engineer at work who has had good luck with it in all of his vehicles. I looked it up and became interested, but I have no personal experience.

http://www.amsoil.com/storefront/ant.aspx
Image

I'm closing in on the time for flushing the coolant... thinking this may be a viable alternative that can offer some benefits.

Any thoughts or opinions?
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by SteveTB03 » Tue Jun 22, 2010 5:13 pm

I've never even heard of the stuff but it sounds promising to use as long as it'll work in our trucks.

Now have you ever thought of using the royal purple additive for coolant?
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by tbangert » Tue Jun 22, 2010 5:14 pm

does the I6 need glycol free coolant? i know some gm vehicles "cant" use any coolant with glycol in it
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by KE7WOX » Tue Jun 22, 2010 5:35 pm

Based on my personal experience I wouldn't use anything that is not guaranteed to be DEXCOOL certified / safe / whatever. Some oil change place put regular green coolant in my friend's STS (we think it was Big O) and we didn't discover it until it started puking coolant all over the parking lot (caused by his mom's poor driving skill - se hit a curb and broke something), then we realized it was green and not orange/pink, and then when he took it to the Cadillac place they also found out some damaged gaskets which had in turn damaged some sensor, and that was causing a failure that was not fully caused by the broken cooling system.
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by bartonmd » Tue Jun 22, 2010 6:22 pm

I use the Evans NPG+ in my motorcycle... Same basic type of "waterless propolene glycol coolant"... Interesting thing is; it boils at 270F under no pressure, but the glycol has a lower specific heat than water... Because of this, some automobiles need a higher capacity water pump to run the coolant through faster, and you will run hotter than before; though you won't boil coolant, and oil doesn't care as long as you're below ~350F... Oh, and if you have an engine that has hot spots in the water jacket and spot-boils coolant, making hot spots in the cylinder, causing pre-ignition (siamese bore small block 400, for instance), it pretty much stops that...

There are plusses and minuses to it, but if you're at all close to your cooling capacity (like we talked about at TECORE), I'd personally stay away from waterless stuff...

Mike

ETA: Scratch all that! I just saw that it was a mix coolant that you half with water...
Last edited by bartonmd on Tue Jun 22, 2010 6:30 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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by bartonmd » Tue Jun 22, 2010 6:23 pm

KE7WOX wrote:Based on my personal experience I wouldn't use anything that is not guaranteed to be DEXCOOL certified / safe / whatever. Some oil change place put regular green coolant in my friend's STS (we think it was Big O) and we didn't discover it until it started puking coolant all over the parking lot (caused by his mom's poor driving skill - se hit a curb and broke something), then we realized it was green and not orange/pink, and then when he took it to the Cadillac place they also found out some damaged gaskets which had in turn damaged some sensor, and that was causing a failure that was not fully caused by the broken cooling system.



http://www.amsoil.com/storefront/ant.aspx

Compatible With Other Fluids
AMSOIL Antifreeze & Coolant is dyed neutral yellow and is compatible with all ethylene and propylene antifreeze and coolant formulations on the market, including DEX-Cool®, Sierra® and Zerex®. It is also compatible with fully formulated diesel anti-freezes and other organic acid technology (OAT) and hybrid organic acid technology (HOAT) formulations.


ETA: It's not that GM stuff needs the Dex coolant, it's more that it can't take the OLD green coolant (before the "all makes, all models" stuff became the norm) that uses silicates (sand) to keep buildup from happening, instead of organic acids... The gaskets, radiators, heater cores, etc. of newer vehicles isn't made to be abraided by the floating silicates in the old green coolant (aluminum and plastic radiators, especially)...

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by DJones » Tue Jun 22, 2010 7:37 pm

Propylene glycol mixed with air and heat creates lactic acid, which could be destructive to your engine. Does it have protodin in it? When I bought my TB, it came with the green stuff. I don't know what I was thinking, but when I changed it out last summer, I didn't flush the system. :shoot: I hope that won't be a big issue.
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by Zero » Wed Jun 23, 2010 8:43 am

I have personally put that stuff in many high performance vehicles. It seems to work very well. No complaints. I had it in my heavily modified pickup and it worked out great for me.

I also get the stuff @ cost so let me know if you are interested and i can call amsoil and have it shipped to u most likly or find a warehouse near you that you can pick it up ur self @.
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by Trail X » Wed Jun 23, 2010 9:09 am

bartonmd wrote:I use the Evans NPG+ in my motorcycle... Same basic type of "waterless propolene glycol coolant"... Interesting thing is; it boils at 270F under no pressure, but the glycol has a lower specific heat than water... Because of this, some automobiles need a higher capacity water pump to run the coolant through faster, and you will run hotter than before; though you won't boil coolant, and oil doesn't care as long as you're below ~350F... Oh, and if you have an engine that has hot spots in the water jacket and spot-boils coolant, making hot spots in the cylinder, causing pre-ignition (siamese bore small block 400, for instance), it pretty much stops that...

There are plusses and minuses to it, but if you're at all close to your cooling capacity (like we talked about at TECORE), I'd personally stay away from waterless stuff...

Mike

ETA: Scratch all that! I just saw that it was a mix coolant that you half with water...


The higher boiling point was what initially led me to this option. Running hotter inside the engine produces a higher efficiency. So as long as the boiling point is higher than the engine running temp, and below the oil flash point... seems it would allow more efficient running. The only worry I have is the specific heat you mentioned. It would run hotter... but how much hotter is unknown.

To get everyone on the same page... in the last heat wave we've been having, my engine coolant has been getting up to 225 F during highway driving... not dangerous yet, but worrisome. I believe the root problem is the big headlights and bumper I have. It creates a wind deflection shield over the grille, so the airflow into the grille and over the radiator has been decreased some. Just looking for ways to ensure I don't boil my coolant.
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by bartonmd » Wed Jun 23, 2010 9:09 am

Zero wrote:I have personally put that stuff in many high performance vehicles. It seems to work very well. No complaints. I had it in my heavily modified pickup and it worked out great for me.

I also get the stuff @ cost so let me know if you are interested and i can call amsoil and have it shipped to u most likly or find a warehouse near you that you can pick it up ur self @.


Yeah, but how long do they last?? A few days of shooting before they go over a cliff and blow up? :viking:

If AMSOIL sells it, I'm sure it's good stuff... I just had to say that ^^

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by bartonmd » Wed Jun 23, 2010 9:28 am

JamesDowning wrote:The higher boiling point was what initially led me to this option. Running hotter inside the engine produces a higher efficiency. So as long as the boiling point is higher than the engine running temp, and below the oil flash point... seems it would allow more efficient running. The only worry I have is the specific heat you mentioned. It would run hotter... but how much hotter is unknown.

To get everyone on the same page... in the last heat wave we've been having, my engine coolant has been getting up to 225 F during highway driving... not dangerous yet, but worrisome. I believe the root problem is the big headlights and bumper I have. It creates a wind deflection shield over the grille, so the airflow into the grille and over the radiator has been decreased some. Just looking for ways to ensure I don't boil my coolant.


I've picked up 2mpg (5%) on my motorcycle since I switched to the Evans waterless stuff, because it does run hotter...

This stuff isn't like the Evans, though... I thought it was, from reading the first half of the page, but when you get down to the bottom, it shows the boiling points when you ratio it with water... I still suspect it's got a lower specific heat than eth. glycol, because IIRC, Propelene Glycol has a lower specific heat than Ethelene Glycol does...

Mike

ETA: Evans boils at 375F at 0psi... Just looked..
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by Zero » Wed Jun 23, 2010 3:11 pm

JD...if you are really think you may have a bit of a heat problem you want to get under control. You may want to switch to a more efficient radiator. Even if your air flow through the grill stayed the same, the rad would still be able to dissapate the heat on its own.

Id suggest looking at aluminum core rads....like the "be cool" rad. They have heat sink fins on the body that also double as mounting points for fans electronics whatever.

My point is, you need a radiator that has a high cooling ability. Just like adding / increase in the size of a trans cooler. If its running to hot, at more cooling surface and or increase the fluid capacity to make the thermal transfer more efficient.

Just my 2cents.


Or if you want to be a bit wild about it, get a functional cowl hood. It will help relieve the heat under the hood, also adding the rads efficiency.
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by bartonmd » Wed Jun 23, 2010 3:51 pm

Zero wrote:JD...if you are really think you may have a bit of a heat problem you want to get under control. You may want to switch to a more efficient radiator. Even if your air flow through the grill stayed the same, the rad would still be able to dissapate the heat on its own.

Id suggest looking at aluminum core rads....like the "be cool" rad. They have heat sink fins on the body that also double as mounting points for fans electronics whatever.

My point is, you need a radiator that has a high cooling ability. Just like adding / increase in the size of a trans cooler. If its running to hot, at more cooling surface and or increase the fluid capacity to make the thermal transfer more efficient.

Just my 2cents.


Or if you want to be a bit wild about it, get a functional cowl hood. It will help relieve the heat under the hood, also adding the rads efficiency.


The aluminum radiators aren't really all that much more efficient than stock. They can be made thinner because aluminum is easier to work than copper, but copper transfers heat much better than aluminum does... What makes the aftermarket/custom aluminum radiators MUCH higher capacity is the fact that a lot of them are 4-core, whereas stock rads are usually 2 or 3 core...

I would first try a little bit of Water Wetter in the coolant (providing it's Dex compatible. I haven't looked)... It simply kills some of the surface tension of the water, and allows it to more efficiently transfer heat from the engine and to the radiator... Some people say it's snake oil, but I used it in my bike before I switched to Evans, and the fan didn't kick on as soon in traffic, and it cooled down quicker after I got up and into free moving air again...


Or you could just remove the lights from in front of your grill...

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by Trail X » Wed Jun 23, 2010 4:18 pm

bartonmd wrote:Or you could just remove the lights from in front of your grill...

Never! :viking:
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by bartonmd » Wed Jun 23, 2010 5:22 pm

JamesDowning wrote:
bartonmd wrote:Or you could just remove the lights from in front of your grill...

Never! :viking:


I'm going to go out on a limb and guess that at this point, the air you're getting is already being heated about as much as it is capable of getting heated, so even if you run straight water with the Redline Water Wetter, in a 4-core radiator, it probably won't help your cooling much...

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by Trail X » Wed Jun 23, 2010 7:31 pm

Yeah, I wasn't really looking for a way to increase cooling so much as increase boiling point initially. It makes me feel better knowing it's 265F. For some reason I thought it was closer to 230.
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by bartonmd » Wed Jun 23, 2010 9:04 pm

JamesDowning wrote:Yeah, I wasn't really looking for a way to increase cooling so much as increase boiling point initially. It makes me feel better knowing it's 265F. For some reason I thought it was closer to 230.


Regular coolant at 50/50 boils at 260F at 15PSI...

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by Zero » Wed Jun 23, 2010 10:50 pm

Also take a look at DEI rad relief.

www.DEIengineering.com
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by bartonmd » Thu Jun 24, 2010 7:24 am

Zero wrote:Also take a look at DEI rad relief.

http://www.DEIengineering.com


http://www.designengineering.com/

Looks to be similar stuff to the Redline Water Wetter that I mentioned above...

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