Offroad Trailblazers and Envoys

Idle vibration only in gear - solved with new motor mounts

Something not working right?

by The Roadie » Sun May 09, 2010 7:20 pm

Lots of discussion on the OS about a nasty and annoying vibration in idle, but only in gear. Not an erratic idle like a dirty throttle body gives you. That goes up and down when the AC compressor kicks on, and can send the idle down to 300-400 RPM and stall the engine out. Then it overshoots when the compressor cycles off.

This is a 10 Hz vibration that comes exactly from the 600 RPM idle speed, which is 10 revs per second. Looking closely at the intake manifold and PCM, I was getting about 1/4" amplitude to the vibration. Less on top of the engine where the throttle body was - the intake manifold and its mounts are a bit flexible and whiplash a bit more than the engine itself.

I changed the camshaft position sensor. Didn't help. Changed camshaft position solenoid / actuator. No go.

The vibration seemed to be resonant, so I took off the intake air tube, and watched the throttle body butterfly valve for getting into a harmonic resonance with the rotational vibration. Changed its mass by adding my finger to it gently. No change.

Read some more and many members reported success by changing the motor mounts. I mocked that idea at first, but thought a bunch more and finally agreed. Bought them from parts4chevys.com (list $96, their price about $60) since aftermarket ones didn't solve the problem for some posters on the OS, so I guessed their stiffness didn't match what GM needs to get the resonance under control. When coupled with a larger mass like the vehicle, it must just work better.

The job is not easy, and frustrated the heck out of me. I had to go buy a 1/2" U-joint because I hadn't used mine in years, and it went missing, and I needed one. The nuts are 18mm, and almost impossible to get a wrench OR a socket on. The upper needs a deep socket, and on the driver's side, the PCMbracketry is right there. Ick. The inner CV tripot joint smashes into the frame when you get all four nuts off and jack up the engine with a block of wood under the oil pan. Many folks remove the engine mount bracket from the strut tower, but that's a lot easier when you don't have large coilovers like my new ones. On the passenger side, I took 3/8" off the lower stud on the motor mount and then I could worm it into place. The old one was damaged and collapsed enough that it came out easily. On the driver's side, I couldn't even get the old one out, so I dropped the engine back down, removed the CV shaft (not a 2 minute project, you all know) then raised the engine back up and got the old one out with no sweat. New one went in just as nicely.

No vibration, and the engine now sits 3/4" higher in the frame! Passenger side was worse due to proximity to the exhaust manifold, I think. There's a heat shield on it. I'm sure my habit of smashing down hard on rocks on the frame when I had only 31.5" tires had a lot to do with collapsing the mounts. Anyway, I consider this a miracle cure to the vibrating idle problem.

Jack under oil pan

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Old versus new. About 3/4" difference in height when compressed. Less on the bench.

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Damaged old one.

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Nice new one.

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Hanging up on tripot joint

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CV pulled out of diff. Engine now jacks up nicely.

Image
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by rgraboske » Sun May 09, 2010 7:55 pm

How many miles does your Envoy have? I ask knowing full well that Roadiemobile miles are like dof years, but just getting an idea.

Thanks
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by Zero » Sun May 09, 2010 9:19 pm

Nice write up. Is there an average amount of millage when the motor mounts seem to be going bad?
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by The Roadie » Mon May 10, 2010 12:42 am

I have only 89K miles, but I'm on my fourth set of anti-sway bar links, second set of CV shafts, third hub on the right, second on the left, third outer tie rod end on the right, second outer on the right, second inner tie rod ends on both sides, third anti-sway bar bushings and one broken bracket, second driveshaft, second rear axle, fifth set of rear shocks, fifth set of shocks, springs, and now entire coilovers in the front, fourth set of tires, only second set of rims. Second windshield after a sand storm, second ignition switch, second lower control arms, second upper control arms, third set of plugs. My transfer case might be showing signs of slippage in 4LO, but 4HI is fine.

My headlamps are stock, although I *did* have to power polish the lenses after being caught in that sandstorm. :D

Failures that I fixed myself of the HVAC actuators, blower motor speed control, stepper motors in the gauges, and steering wheel clockspring.

Oh, sorry - I neglected to include the part number of the OEM mounts: GM # 15062381

Most owner's mounts NEVER go bad.

Writing that all down makes me realize yet again this can be an expensive hobby. I think Teebes is only slightly behind me in this list. We sort of push the envelope, but we've been some insane, scenic, and memorable places. :mrgreen:
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by teebes » Fri Aug 20, 2010 4:38 pm

Nice pics and write-up, Roadie!

Going to get these ordered sooner than later!
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by teebes » Sat Sep 04, 2010 6:54 pm

Installed my new mounts today. I ended up dropping the struts and removing the frame mount vs the cv's. Allowed a little more working room in the wheel well, beyond giving way for the frame bolts.

The passenger side mount was the worst off, no wonder as it sits inches from the exhaust manifold. Mine looked exactly like the damaged one Roadie posted.

Smooth driving now. Tried a quick drive around the block, but my diff wasn't liking that idea. It's gonna need towed to the shop next week for an overhaul.
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by Stoked » Wed Apr 13, 2011 4:20 pm

I have this infamous vibration as well, followed all tips and quick checks, my motor mounts are definitely the problem. I really dont understand what teebes did, but with multiple jacks, can I remove the stuts, lower the frame, then jack up the engine?
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by fishsticks » Wed Apr 13, 2011 4:43 pm

You can do it with one jack and a piece of soft wood to cushion the oil pan.

Pull the top nuts off the mounts and jack the motor up... if you need more space the motor mount brackets can be unbolted from the frame if you disconnect the upper ball joints and upper strut mounts, then swing the strut assemblies downward on the lower axis. This gives you access to the bracket bolts.
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by Stoked » Wed Apr 13, 2011 5:14 pm

Nice, I'll try that.
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by Trail X » Wed Apr 13, 2011 5:40 pm

Please post back with your results. I'm still skeptical that this is the root cause.
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by bgwolfpack » Wed Apr 13, 2011 5:56 pm

JamesDowning wrote:Please post back with your results. I'm still skeptical that this is the root cause.
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