Offroad Trailblazers and Envoys

Disconnect rebuild issue

Something not working right?

by Wahugg » Wed May 07, 2014 11:08 am

Hey all.

I took apart my disconnect today due to it clicking for a few revolutions before the collar would engage. I assumed that one of the two outer bearings were toast allowing for the cv shaft to tilt up and misaligning the two gears.

Well I took it apart and was greeted with the same peanut butter looking grease Caleb saw in his. Once I cleaned everything up I could find nothing wrong. Both bearings were intact and NOT worn.

The only thing I could find wrong was that the 4 nubs in the inside of the outside shell were worn down to the point of almost not engaging the washer (part number 4).

1. How important are those nubs.
2. Could those worn nubs be causing my issue and if not what could?

Also I have some insight into why the outer bearings might fail so quickly. My inner bearing on the outer shell was covered in grease while the outside was barely wet at all. The gap between the two bearings seems to prevent the outer bearing from effectively getting the grease. Maybe to help prevent wear and save time, simply remove the cv shaft and put some grease on the outer bearing every so often. This way you don't have to take apart the whole disconnect as the majority of the innards seem to be greased relatively well.

Photos:

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^Bad grease.
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^ Both bearings intact with no apparent wear.
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^Worn down nubs.
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by Moots1288 » Wed May 07, 2014 11:53 am

I believe they just hold the washer centered for setting it up.
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by Cable810 » Wed May 07, 2014 12:54 pm

Moots1288 wrote:I believe they just hold the washer centered for setting it up.


:Iagree: Looks like the washer was made to fit with those nubs. Your disco doesn't look as bad as what mine was. If you do a rebuild hopefully you won't have to was weeks to get your parts.
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by Trail X » Wed May 07, 2014 1:00 pm

The nubs are meant to keep the funky shaped thrust washer from spinning and wearing down the aluminum. Obviously it doesn't work that well. I had considered drilling and tapping two holes in the outer housing for screws that would replace the aluminum nubs. But no, it shouldn't make your disconnect make a ton of noise.
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by Wahugg » Wed May 07, 2014 1:28 pm

Thanks for the information everyone.

It wasn't making a ton of noise, just about 5 or 6 clicks as if the collar was having issues fully seating to connect both gears. After seeing the nubs worn down and the bearings intact, my conclusion has changed. I think the clicking noise I heard was the thrush washer spinning/eating up the nubs.

My thrush washer had a small groove in it on the gear side which I blame on normal wear and tear. The thrush washer is there to provide a solid surface for the gear to rub up against versus the aluminum housing which would just wear away. Despite being hardened, 170,000 miles made the gear wear in a slight groove. I believe that this groove is the key as to why the nubs wear away. The groove allows the thrush washer to move towards the gear just enough that it is hardly engaging the 4 nubs. Then during high power usage the nubs snap due to partial engagement of the washer, allowing the thrush washer to turn and further wear down the nubs. This is the "clicking" noise I believe I am hearing.

Is that idea sound to everyone else?

I am going to install a new outer seal and thrush washer for now. The surface area of the thrush washer is pretty large so I hope it is enough to keep it from spinning during non 4x4 use. I'll take it apart in the future to see if the wear is significant enough to warrant Jame's idea.

-Wahugg
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by Wahugg » Wed May 28, 2014 9:42 am

I'm bumping this to the top again.

I am still having issues with the collar fully engaging both gears. The clicking is very loud during engagement but the collar isn't quite engaging fully until a a fair amount of wheel spin.

My internals are still in great shape and not worn. Could the disconnect actuator its self be causing this issue by not fully engaging the fork at first? I'm a bit hesitant to say this is the issue as a failing/not fully engaging actuator should trip a "Service 4WD" light shouldn't it?

-Wahugg
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by The Roadie » Wed May 28, 2014 10:00 am

The actuator has a force-limiting spring inside the button. Pull the actuator from the disconnect and press in on the fork using a rod. Perhaps you have too much grease in the area where the actuator presses and there's a lot of push-back and the actuator goes into force-limiting mode for a short time?
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by Trail X » Wed May 28, 2014 12:59 pm

It shouldn't click a bunch if your front diff and your transfer case are operating properly. Do you KNOW that your 4WD is functioning properly once the disco connects up? If its clicking a bunch when driving forward on flat ground when you're trying to engage 4WD, I'm betting it isn't.
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by Wahugg » Wed May 28, 2014 5:32 pm

Trail X wrote:It shouldn't click a bunch if your front diff and your transfer case are operating properly. Do you KNOW that your 4WD is functioning properly once the disco connects up? If its clicking a bunch when driving forward on flat ground when you're trying to engage 4WD, I'm betting it isn't.


Yes I do know that the front diff and transfer-case work properly once the disco is properly engaged. Bind up occurs on our concrete slabs and breaking loose the rear end is extremely hard.

I'm 100% sure it is the disconnect. For example, I stop off camber on the crest of a hill so only one rear wheel has good traction. The posi engages and the rear-end starts to slide out since both wheels are locked and turning. Now I turn the 4hi on to go forward and prevent the sliding. However the clicking becomes present with the rear end still sliding out. After a few seconds on light gas (still spinning rear wheels) the clicking stops with a jolt (disconnect engaging) and I now progress up and over the crest of the hill like I should with a functioning 4x4 system. The clicking is now gone.

The clicking will not present itself until I go to 2hi and back to 4hi which coincides with the disconnect disengaging and then having trouble re-engaging. The clicking does not present itself while switching between 4x4 modes which makes sense since the disconnect stays connected the entire time.

I may get the AWD sleeve but that is not really fixing the issue, just sort of covering it up. I want to fix this issue so that I am not masking the problem with the sleeve (besides dropping $$ and having decreased mpg).

Roadie,

The disconnect fork provided minimal resistance when using a screwdriver to engage it. This about three weeks ago when I rebuilt it. It seems unlikely but perhaps grease worked its way into the hole providing for increased resistance. Then again this doesn't really explain the clicking before the disco rebuild but non the less it is a valid aspect to investigate.

Could all the bearings wear evenly giving the appearance they are fine but actually be worn out of spec?

-Wahugg
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by TBYODA » Wed May 28, 2014 5:50 pm

Wahugg wrote:
I may get the AWD sleeve but that is not really fixing the issue, just sort of covering it up. I want to fix this issue so that I am not masking the problem with the sleeve (besides dropping $$ and having decreased mpg).

How can getting the AWD sleeve not fit it and just mask it? The front cv's and diff will be connect all time even in 2hi. Only the transfer case engages when switching to 4wd or 4lo. You could try spot welding the engagement ring to the inner gear and have the ring over the outer gear like fishsticks did and remove the fork. Thus making a better poor mans awd sleeve or do the JD trick. ;) Btw IIRC the lose in mpg is insignificant everything up front is already turning as it is.
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by Trail X » Wed May 28, 2014 6:53 pm

I wasn't implying that the noise was coming from a different component of your truck. The clicking noise comes from different rotating speeds of the two side gears of the disconnect preventing the sliding collar from finding a positive engagement. This can come from one of three things. First, is an inoperable transfer case, the second is an inoperable diff (least likely) and third is from improper engagement technique.

Based on your description... you fall into the third category. You should always engage 4wd when traveling slowly forward. A soft turn helps or turning the steering wheel left and right may aid engagement. In your scenario, you are engaging the 4wd after the truck is stuck and stopped. Most likely you have one front tire able to spin and the other stuffed and firmly engaged with the ground. When the disco pushes the plunger in, the splines probably aren't aligned... 99% they aren't. When you then hit the gas, your gears are skipping over each other due to the difference in speed of the front two wheels. That same difference in speed exists between the two side gears of the disconnect. You end up getting a bunch of clicks as it rounds the ends off of your teeth as it skipps around until it happens to click into the right spot.

So it sounds like your disconnect is working fine except for some metal shavings and some rounded off teeth. Its your use that is flawed.
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by Wahugg » Wed May 28, 2014 9:14 pm

TBYODA wrote:How can getting the AWD sleeve not fit it and just mask it?


The AWD sleeve would be covering up the reason for causing the clicking to start. The AWD sleeve would eliminate the clicking since its taking the place of the collar and is always engaged, but it is not fulfilling the 'why' aspect.

Why did the failure to engage in my scenario just start now? Why not the previous 4 years of the same technique? Something has had to change to allow it to now start happening.

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by Trail X » Wed May 28, 2014 9:36 pm

The teeth get rounded off.
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by tobolsk2002 » Wed Jun 11, 2014 9:33 am

I was the same! the two lock washers erased
I bent ears and drilled holes for them.

Image

On a large washer carved ears and just drilled holes for them.
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by tobolsk2002 » Wed Jun 11, 2014 9:57 am

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