Rear Panhard Bar Discussion

[Excell]

Continued from here: viewtopic.php?f=11&t=429&p=4897#p4897

If you're lifted more than 2", I strongly suggest saving up for an adjustable panhard bar, either from Suicide Doors or from Neilage. More news on this later.

Whole thing was a great post, but I'm quite interested in your expanded thoughts on this subject.

[The Roadie]

   TrailVoy Thread  

[Excell]

   TrailVoy Thread  

C'mon Roadie, what do you take me for? Just cause I'm currently a mall-crawler doesn't mean I don't search. I've read that thread a few times. It sounded like with your post in this thread as if you had even more juicy tidbits of info/experience to share.

[HARDTRAILZ]

I did the suicidedoors bar and it was am easy install and got everything straightened up. Very solid product, more substantial than the factory thing. I dont know that it did much, but it shoudl be tracking a bit straighter down the road. Other than seeing the tires are straight, I do think that over rough pavement it now bounce straight where I used to feel like it was jounced to the side over bigger bumps. Might be imagination, but for the money i am glad i did it.

[The Roadie]

It sounded like with your post in this thread as if you had even more juicy tidbits of info/experience to share.

Sorry, sorry. I can't tear myself away from the noob-bashing on the OS; I forget sometimes where I am.

Anyway, I have thought some more, and have to add this mod to Neil's long list that I can't fully fund yet. The ideal design for the resting position of a panhard bar is horizontal, so the effect of a height change translates to the smallest amount of displacement. So the passenger side mount of the panhard bar just needs to be lowered to match your lift. Puts it at slight risk of whackage on rocks especially if you're backing up, but the Spider should protect your diff.

Everybody already has their Spider, RIGHT!?!?!?!

More news when Neil designs a drop bracket for us.

[bartonmd]

It sounded like with your post in this thread as if you had even more juicy tidbits of info/experience to share.

Sorry, sorry. I can't tear myself away from the noob-bashing on the OS; I forget sometimes where I am.

Anyway, I have thought some more, and have to add this mod to Neil's long list that I can't fully fund yet. The ideal design for the resting position of a panhard bar is horizontal, so the effect of a height change translates to the smallest amount of displacement. So the passenger side mount of the panhard bar just needs to be lowered to match your lift. Puts it at slight risk of whackage on rocks especially if you're backing up, but the Spider should protect your diff.

Everybody already has their Spider, RIGHT!?!?!?!

More news when Neil designs a drop bracket for us.

"stuff-whackage" being what it is, would it be better to raise the mount on the diff than to lower the mount on the vehicle?? That would stop the Spider from hitting the panhard bar, and would keep the panhard bar and vehicle-side mounts up higher off the trail...

Mike

[OregTrailBlazin]

"stuff-whackage" being what it is, would it be better to raise the mount on the diff than to lower the mount on the vehicle?? That would stop the Spider from hitting the panhard bar, and would keep the panhard bar and vehicle-side mounts up higher off the trail...

Mike

I was thinking this aswell, as long as the taller mount doesn't come up into the body!

[foosh]

As long as you have a suspension lift equal to the size of the mount's raised height, it should work correct?

[bartonmd]

As long as you have a suspension lift equal to the size of the mount's raised height, it should work correct?

has more to do with bump stops than actual amount of lift... Stock bump stops with more lift still bottoms out the same, and can't have a higher bar on the axle side, unless it just doesn't hit anything...

Mike

[foosh]

Hmmm...gotcha interesting, sounds like it could be a fairly easy fix. However, the panhard bar would be much simpler to do.

[bartonmd]

Hmmm...gotcha interesting, sounds like it could be a fairly easy fix. However, the panhard bar would be much simpler to do.

Where's the "face-palm" emoticon?

The adjustable panhard bar is a half-assed fix... As Bill said above, it will get the axle centered up at rest when you adjust it, but since the bar is already at an angle, it will move left and right a lot more than it would if the bar was horizontal at rest, like it does at stock height... The "real" fix is to make mounts at such height as to make the bar horizontal at rest (or rather, at the middle of the travel)... That way, you get the least side to side movement as it moves through the travel.

Mike

[Excell]

It sounded like with your post in this thread as if you had even more juicy tidbits of info/experience to share.

Sorry, sorry. I can't tear myself away from the noob-bashing on the OS; I forget sometimes where I am.

Anyway, I have thought some more, and have to add this mod to Neil's long list that I can't fully fund yet. The ideal design for the resting position of a panhard bar is horizontal, so the effect of a height change translates to the smallest amount of displacement. So the passenger side mount of the panhard bar just needs to be lowered to match your lift. Puts it at slight risk of whackage on rocks especially if you're backing up, but the Spider should protect your diff.

Interesting, I was actually thinking about this when I was taking off+inspecting the panhard bar during my lift. I noticed it wouldn't be terribly difficult to make a drop link/mount to horizontal it out, which as you mentioned for lighter duty missions would be fine, but for heavier duty stuff you may end up snagging the bar which could be meaningless if there's no damage or could be bad if you don't have a spare. Probably would be a good idea to carry the stock bar or a spare adjustable for an emergency, eh? Is Neal working on a drop mount?

And like Mike said, this drop mount would be in addition to an adjustable bar. Yea you could use the stock bar with it I guess, but an adjustable bar is so cheap and offers adjustability - I don't see why you wouldn't?

[Trail X]

My goodness, if you had to carry a spare track bar, why not carry a spare lower control arm... maybe some spare brake pads and a spare steering wheel while you're at it.

The track bar/panhard bar is still a fairly nit-picky issue... no matter how you look at it. Lets say the bar is 3' long (I don't have an exact measurement), if you lift the vehicle 4", it's only offsetting the axle by 0.23". Doesn't that just get lost in the noise, just as adding an extra 1/4" of lift does?

Sqrt (36"^2 - 4"^2) = 35.77
36 - 35.77 = 0.23"

Don't get me wrong, raise brackets for the axle would be a cool addition... but how much expense is it worth?

[The Roadie]

I'll take some measurements later, but my impression is that I had about an inch of shift at rest height, but that might have been because it was 1/2" out on the right and 1/2" in on the left, so it looked like a 1" difference, but it was only a 1/2" shift.

But at full suspension extension on the left side, it's much larger shift.

[bartonmd]

If the bar is 24" long, and horizontal at rest, stock height, then:

4" down will be .336 over
6" down will be .762 over
12" down will be 3.215 over

Mike

[Trail X]

I understand the concept that as you rotate the bar it offsets the axle in an increasing relationship: Offset = [bar length] - Sqrt ( [bar length] ^2 - [lift] ^2 ) That equation is only valid for parallel movement of the axle... meaning lift or hitting a bump with both tires.

However, there's no way the bar is only 24" long, so there is some exaggeration in your numbers above. I guess I don't really understand why a little offset is much of a deal. I guess the biggest deal is that it could induce some scrubbing into the tires, which would lead to faster wear.

[bartonmd]

I know you understand the concept...

If somebody will tell me how long the bar is, I've still got the sketch open, and will make the numbers right... I have no idea how long it is, but it doesn't look 3'... 30" maybe?

What's the max droop?

Mike

[bgwolfpack]

I know you understand the concept...

If somebody will tell me how long the bar is, I've still got the sketch open, and will make the numbers right... I have no idea how long it is, but it doesn't look 3'... 30" maybe? 32 1/4 center to center bolt.

What's the max droop? From which point?

Mike

[Trail X]

Seems we almost split the actual dimension of the bar, Mike.

The max droop will depend entirely on your shock's max extension. Droop in this case would be measured from an unlifted, panhard level, state.

[bartonmd]

For the correct length bar:

4" down will be .249 over
6" down will be .563 over
12" down will be 2.316 over

This is ASSuming that the bar is level at rest, stock height...

I'm talking about the droop from the bar level down to the lowest point that it can get, limited by shock travel... Both stock and with the longer Z71 Tahoe shocks would be good...

Mike