BDS vs SMAXX

[cbbryan]

I am new and have no idea really what I need here so I was hoping that you guys with experience could help me BDS 2" lift or the SMAXX 2.5" front and 2" rear lift which is better i already know prices.

[Trail X]

Lets muddy the water even more here before setting things straight... there are (currently) 5 main options.

- BDS suspension
- Zone body
- MarkMC suspension
- SuspensionMaxx suspension
- Rough Country suspension
- Ready-Lift suspension
- (soon to come - coilovers? )

The Zone body lift is the odd ball, as it merely lifts the body in relation to the frame. Good to help fit big tires, but does not help attain underbody clearance.



The MarkMC and the SMaxx kits are essentially identical. They are competing companies, however MarkMC is a vendor here, while Smaxx seems to keep their distance. These kits are the 'budget' end of things. While they produce the highest lift of the options, it also uses the stock upper shock mounting method. The stock upper shock mount can notoriously fail if you wheel hard, carry a heavy front-end load (winch, bumper, etc), or drive a lot off road. That is the system's weak point. The system is composed of two pucks... one goes within the shock, to add lift while not extending the max suspension droop, one goes outside of the shock to add further lift, and allow the suspension to extend a bit further.



The BDS suspension completely gets rid of the upper shock mounting method and provides a single lifting component made of powdercoated steel. This block lifts the spring, and also readjusts the upper shock mounting point to provide a bit more downward articulation. It provides improved shock mount bushings that resists the wear and tear of heavy duty use.



The Rough country is essentially a copy of the BDS kit, however it seems to be made of lighter-gague metal. It utilizes an improved upper-shock mount also.



The Ready Lift is a bolt-on unit, and does not require taking the strut apart. The lift is added completely outside the strut, thus lifting the vehicle at rest, but also adding that full amount to the downward articulation of the suspension, potentially putting it into a bind-up scenario. We need more results from this to make conjectures, as only one known member here has tried it so far (for only a few weeks).



So essentially, if you plan to hit extended trails, or rough trails, or plan to add weight up front... go with the BDS. Otherwise, the Smaxx/MarkMC will do fine for you. If you get a wild hair, try the Rough Country or Ready Lift... neither has been fully adopted or put through their paces yet.

[The Roadie]

James, you might want to edit that excellent compilation with some fix-ups.

The Rough Country new lift is installed INSIDE the coil and replaces the upper mount with a BDS-like set of polyurethane bushings. Its final lift value is 2", which implies a 1.4" spring preload (assuming it was designed with no strut lengthening component).

Install instructions link: http://www.roughcountry.com/install/289.pdf

Ready-lift is the new product on the market that's OUTSIDE the spring, and doesn't reduce travel. It's 1.5" thick - giving 2.25" lift. Teebes is running with a set for evaluation, which we're looking at for over-extension of the upper ball joint. I have to write a report on this kit.

Install instructions:
http://www.readylift.com/files/instruct ... ST_kit.pdf

[Trail X]

Ahhhh ... thanks for the heads up, I completely forgot about the ready-lift... and instead thought that was the rough-country... my bad. Edited!

[bgwolfpack]

So guys it would be theoretically possible to add both BDS style (inside the coils) and Readylift (outside the spring) without any other geometry problems except drive shaft angle?
If this holds true, an upgrade in shafts may be possible for more tolerances within the cv joints?
James, Roadie, isn't this available now in other platforms of 4x4s?

[The Roadie]

We're currently evaluating exactly this possibility with the Readylift kit. Not ready to report success yet. I'm running BDS with a 1/2" shim on top. These are available from both Markmc and SuspensionMAXX. Teebes is running an experiment with EXT struts and Readylift. Not sure who will try the BDS/Readylift experiment first. I'm hoping I get the proto Icon coilvers soon and Teebes can go down the other avenue first, then swap over to Icons later.

The upper ball joint mounting stud angle looks to be the first limiting factor. Then the inner CV joint.

EVERY POSSIBLE fix for this is available on other platforms, but nothing for us yet.

[cbbryan]

Ok so needing to upgrade the suspension soon because current tires are wearing thin. Which would be my best option to get me lifted and for new tires? I need to be able to install it myself too.

btw- i cant figure out how to put up a picture

[The Roadie]

Pictures can be attached two ways. If they're on your computer and not hosted elsewhere like Photobucket, use the "Upload Attachment" box when you're posting. If you have an image URL from elsewhere, click the "Img" button above and insert your URL between the two tags.

By install it yourself, do you mean "no spring compressor experience"? That's going to leave you with the Readylift option only, which isn't a bad one.

What are your offroad intentions and what kind of trails do you want to run? Where do you live - any offroading trailvoys nearby?

[cbbryan]

I have no spring compressor experience. How much would that and an economical set of all terrains to get me by cos

I live in Amory, MS and as far as trails go there are none that I know of. I would like to travel to some of the trails I've seen in everyone's photos, but for now I want my sport utility vehicle to be able to handle everything I may encounter. As it sits currently I am weary about taking it off road.

[Trail X]

So guys it would be theoretically possible to add both BDS style (inside the coils) and Readylift (outside the spring) without any other geometry problems except drive shaft angle?
If this holds true, an upgrade in shafts may be possible for more tolerances within the cv joints?
James, Roadie, isn't this available now in other platforms of 4x4s?

4" of lift would be about the absolute max we could ever get out of our inner Tripod joint. Tripod joints have a max operating angle of about 26* (I don't know of any that have a higher articulation angle... if you so desired you'd have to have a double CV shaft with a plunge joint between them). Do the math and 26* equates to somewhere around 7" of max down articulation. At that angle, you'd be looking at a much shorter life. So 4" is likely the best we could ever hope for without relocating the diff. To aim a little more reliably, I'm thinking 3.5" sounds like it could prove to be reliable with an upgraded upper control arm.

However, as it stands, you may not be able to even get your strut into it's perch with both lifts installed.

[The Roadie]

James - that 4" is calculated from the CV shaft being horizontal? Because as you've pointed out before, the spring preload spacer doesn't affect the strut's extended length at all. You just trade a taller resting height for less downwards compression distance.

We need new max numbers for strut extended length to accommodate lifts like the Readylift and to help me make sure the Icon coilovers are designed to be as long as possible so we get the most travel out of them without needing limiting straps.

[Trail X]

James - that 4" is calculated from the CV shaft being horizontal? Because as you've pointed out before, the spring preload spacer doesn't affect the strut's extended length at all. You just trade a taller resting height for less downwards compression distance.

We need new max numbers for strut extended length to accommodate lifts like the Readylift and to help me make sure the Icon coilovers are designed to be as long as possible so we get the most travel out of them without needing limiting straps.

Yes, from stock, horizontal, according to my measurizements.

If I were to set up the ideal suspension, I beleive it would rest at about 3.5" of lift, and allow it to articulate 3" downward... no more, to a max down articulation of about 6.5".

But according to my measurements, that seems to be about the best we can do with the tripod joint and diff... assuming use of adjusted-angle upper control arms.

[fishsticks]

I'm necroing this thread since I actually bothered Roadie about stacking in PMs on the OS. I was still lurking here at the time and somehow missed this thread.

I'm looking to try this out in the following manner:

Unlike the BDS kit, my Rough Country kit doesn't have the strut mount bolts welded into the spacer. They are just captured bolts (like wheel studs). I'm thinking about upgrading the mount bolts to Grade 8 hardware (will probably do this anyway) and picking up a couple pairs of .5" shims from Mark. This costs a ton less than the Readylift kit and allows me to test in stages.

Now for the questions:

1. Am I duplicating anyone else's work?

2. I don't foresee any structural problems with this due to the upgraded hardware and lack of any significant shearing force to the top part of the strut assembly.

3. Since the upper ball joint is the first limiting factor of our suspension setup, is this assumption correct: So long as the upper balljoint is not at it's angle limit when the assembly is fully unloaded, I should be OK. Is there any other factor I should be looking at?

I already have one shim in my assembly currently. Given the amount of ball joint angle I "had left" when I reassembled my setup, I figure I should be able to get at least one more shim in per side.

My truck is sitting around 82K miles. My upper ball joints are in good shape, but if I wreck one/both testing this setup, they are old enough that I won't feel too bad replacing them. My front suspension came apart and went back together very easily when I put my lift on. I suspect I could have new spacers in place in well under an hour.

Someone please give me a compelling reason not to do this... otherwise I think I'm going to get a hold of Mark.

[Trail X]

You want to do a RC kit + two 1/2" spacers on each side?

I don't have compelling reasons not to do this... but I think you're really at the limit of that upper ball joint... a broken upper ball joint isn't anything to sneeze at... you don't want your tire to fold under.

[fishsticks]

You want to do a RC kit + two 1/2" spacers on each side?

I don't have compelling reasons not to do this... but I think you're really at the limit of that upper ball joint... a broken upper ball joint isn't anything to sneeze at... you don't want your tire to fold under.

Exactly, I'm thinking it may be possible without the ball joint going to it's travel limit. It's a cheap experiment that as far as I can tell, no one has tried yet.

If it works, I get an extra 3/4"-ish of front wheel clearance. If I put it together and the ball joints are on their rims with the truck on jack stands and the suspension unloaded, I take them off. I'm out 30 bucks and my curiosity is satisfied.

Since the BDS and RC fronts are similar, I assume my success or failure would mirror what would happen for folks with the BDS kit.

For the long term, I'm going on the assumption that if a ball joint did become overstressed, it would tweak and loosen up, rather than just shear off/come apart. I definitely don't feel like having a wheel fold up.

[Trail X]

All depends on how it fails...

[fishsticks]

All depends on how it fails...

You're not helping.

I had a lower come apart on me on a Fiero once. Was driving on the interstate...

Sparks... lots of em.

[Gordinho80]

I wouldn't feel safe driving around in a truck with stacked shims... just my opinion.