Z71 Springs

[MrSmithsTB]

I asked.

Roadie you don't seem that timid.

Too many forums.

Too little effort.

Too little time.

Not for a good salesman.

I'll protect their interests here and be a go-between.

Are you getting a spiff?

And poke them as often as I can with new product requests as long as folks keep BUYING their stuff for the platform.

If they would be a voice here and on the os Markmc might not get so many free sales. At least he puts in the time needed, which isn't much.
Free marketing and they don't take advantage of it. Idiots

Same thing with SMAXX. I have told Larry on NUMEROUS occasions that I will act as his "monkey in the middle" to boost sales, at no charge mind you, and he still has yet to get serious about advertising here or on the OS.

[HARDTRAILZ]

But who did the original design...Mark or SMAXX? Larry wasnt real friendly when he found I was prototyping marks body lift. However Zone was cool with it when I was wearing there shirt and telling them i was running a modified version of their lift. They even gave the nephews free temp tattoos.

The guy that built my suburban has a good relationship w Larry through his shop and he shared a booth w him at the Indy 4x4 Jamboree. Still, I doubt I would run the Smaxx ends because of his attitude.

"If they would be a voice here and on the os Markmc might not get so many free sales. At least he puts in the tim"e needed, which isn't much. "

I know it is more time than you think. Every day. First thing in morning, every afternoon and taking or returning calls at all hours of the night. Doing free installs for Trailvoy members. I would not do it for the minimal markup he gets. Just breaking even on the Suspension stuff now and developing another body lift...at his cost and time.., while only supporting one platform. Pretty impressive really.

Not the full offroad intent some have, but getting more involved with the platform and lifting, for looks or some minor usage or poor offroaders doing what they can to wheel. I am proud to run his stuff. I may have gone BDS but at the time I did not have the cash and I have not had any issues with his products. Actually if money was not an object, I would run a similar setup to Alek and support no vendor that supports the 360 platform.

[bgwolfpack]

No, I understand it's a great involvement for Mark and I appreciate it. But Mark is a small fry in the overall market, not just this platform. My point is they are fools not to take advantage of this resource, here or on the os. Very piss poor marketing and a sales structure that is bound to fail with such inept lack of foresight and judgment.

[The Roadie]

My point is they are fools not to take advantage of this resource, here or on the os. Very piss poor marketing and a sales structure that is bound to fail with such inept lack of foresight and judgment.

I think they're doing triage. The GMT360 platform is never going to be taken as a serious offroad platform. Just look where the front diff is bolted to. So with limited market appeal, and THOUSANDS more Yukon/Tahoe/Suburban/pickup owners, where should they put their effort?

I doubt there are 300 lifted trailvoys in the world. And half or more of them, like half of Mark's sales, are for mall lifts. Look at the lack of aftermarket coilovers. ALL these suspension product companies can't be crazy. I'm convinced WE are.

What's the worldwide market YOU would predict for $1200 trailvoy coilovers? How many the first month from the early adopters? How many the next quarter? The next year? Next five years?

In general I think the free market capitalistic system we have is efficient. If there's a market for a product that can make a profit, somebody will be doing it. If nobody's offering it, that's a VERY GOOD CLUE that it's not a profitable market compared to alternatives that companies in that market see. Marketing folks aren't generally stupid. To assume so might cause you to come to flawed conclusions.

[HARDTRAILZ]

My point is they are fools not to take advantage of this resource, here or on the os. Very piss poor marketing and a sales structure that is bound to fail with such inept lack of foresight and judgment.

I think they're doing triage. The GMT360 platform is never going to be taken as a serious offroad platform. Just look where the front diff is bolted to. So with limited market appeal, and THOUSANDS more Yukon/Tahoe/Suburban/pickup owners, where should they put their effort?

I doubt there are 300 lifted trailvoys in the world. And half or more of them, like half of Mark's sales, are for mall lifts. Look at the lack of aftermarket coilovers. ALL these suspension product companies can't be crazy. I'm convinced WE are.

What's the worldwide market YOU would predict for $1200 trailvoy coilovers? How many the first month from the early adopters? How many the next quarter? The next year? Next five years?

In general I think the free market capitalistic system we have is efficient. If there's a market for a product that can make a profit, somebody will be doing it. If nobody's offering it, that's a VERY GOOD CLUE that it's not a profitable market compared to alternatives that companies in that market see. Marketing folks aren't generally stupid. To assume so might cause you to come to flawed conclusions.

Well said.

[MrSmithsTB]

But who did the original design...Mark or SMAXX? Larry wasnt real friendly when he found I was prototyping marks body lift. However Zone was cool with it when I was wearing there shirt and telling them i was running a modified version of their lift. They even gave the nephews free temp tattoos.

The guy that built my suburban has a good relationship w Larry through his shop and he shared a booth w him at the Indy 4x4 Jamboree. Still, I doubt I would run the Smaxx ends because of his attitude.

"If they would be a voice here and on the os Markmc might not get so many free sales. At least he puts in the tim"e needed, which isn't much. "

I know it is more time than you think. Every day. First thing in morning, every afternoon and taking or returning calls at all hours of the night. Doing free installs for Trailvoy members. I would not do it for the minimal markup he gets. Just breaking even on the Suspension stuff now and developing another body lift...at his cost and time.., while only supporting one platform. Pretty impressive really.

Not the full offroad intent some have, but getting more involved with the platform and lifting, for looks or some minor usage or poor offroaders doing what they can to wheel. I am proud to run his stuff. I may have gone BDS but at the time I did not have the cash and I have not had any issues with his products. Actually if money was not an object, I would run a similar setup to Alek and support no vendor that supports the 360 platform.

From what Mark told me in one of our phone conversations before I got my lift, the two of them were prototyping together when Larry said they didn't want to pursue it anymore. He then marketed the product solo, which is why Mark decided to offer an alternative that was more wallet friendly. I stand behind Mark for both of his projects. He has done a lot to help a lot of members and his parts are top quality for the price. With over 100k on the odometer I am glad I have more cost effective suspension and body lift options so I don't have to pour so much into this while effectively using it and saving for it's eventual replacement. Being on a fixed income right now and still being able to experiment is a great thing to me.

I think they're doing triage. The GMT360 platform is never going to be taken as a serious offroad platform. Just look where the front diff is bolted to. So with limited market appeal, and THOUSANDS more Yukon/Tahoe/Suburban/pickup owners, where should they put their effort?

I doubt there are 300 lifted trailvoys in the world. And half or more of them, like half of Mark's sales, are for mall lifts. Look at the lack of aftermarket coilovers. ALL these suspension product companies can't be crazy. I'm convinced WE are.

What's the worldwide market YOU would predict for $1200 trailvoy coilovers? How many the first month from the early adopters? How many the next quarter? The next year? Next five years?

In general I think the free market capitalistic system we have is efficient. If there's a market for a product that can make a profit, somebody will be doing it. If nobody's offering it, that's a VERY GOOD CLUE that it's not a profitable market compared to alternatives that companies in that market see. Marketing folks aren't generally stupid. To assume so might cause you to come to flawed conclusions.

My point is they are fools not to take advantage of this resource, here or on the os. Very piss poor marketing and a sales structure that is bound to fail with such inept lack of foresight and judgment.

I think they're doing triage. The GMT360 platform is never going to be taken as a serious offroad platform. Just look where the front diff is bolted to. So with limited market appeal, and THOUSANDS more Yukon/Tahoe/Suburban/pickup owners, where should they put their effort?

I doubt there are 300 lifted trailvoys in the world. And half or more of them, like half of Mark's sales, are for mall lifts. Look at the lack of aftermarket coilovers. ALL these suspension product companies can't be crazy. I'm convinced WE are.

What's the worldwide market YOU would predict for $1200 trailvoy coilovers? How many the first month from the early adopters? How many the next quarter? The next year? Next five years?

In general I think the free market capitalistic system we have is efficient. If there's a market for a product that can make a profit, somebody will be doing it. If nobody's offering it, that's a VERY GOOD CLUE that it's not a profitable market compared to alternatives that companies in that market see. Marketing folks aren't generally stupid. To assume so might cause you to come to flawed conclusions.

Couldn't agree more. When you lay it out like that, our platform is a dying market and it doesn't serve the big guys to waste time and effort pushing products that make up a fraction of a percent of their sales. Just this year at Carlisle, some guy walked by our lil old lifted section and snickered as one of them said "what the hell can you do with a lifted Trailblazer?" The thing is that most people won't know unless they own one. And they will never own one unless it can do what they want, which will probably involve SAS swaps, etc. Which are mods that don't reuse our parts anyway. Truth be told, I would go full size if I could do it again. or Jeep. But I have to make do with what I own, and that's ok because of everyone here that pushes the limits and lets the rest know where to start and where to finish.

[Philberto]

But who did the original design...Mark or SMAXX? Larry wasnt real friendly when he found I was prototyping marks body lift. However Zone was cool with it when I was wearing there shirt and telling them i was running a modified version of their lift. They even gave the nephews free temp tattoos.

The guy that built my suburban has a good relationship w Larry through his shop and he shared a booth w him at the Indy 4x4 Jamboree. Still, I doubt I would run the Smaxx ends because of his attitude.

"If they would be a voice here and on the os Markmc might not get so many free sales. At least he puts in the tim"e needed, which isn't much. "

I know it is more time than you think. Every day. First thing in morning, every afternoon and taking or returning calls at all hours of the night. Doing free installs for Trailvoy members. I would not do it for the minimal markup he gets. Just breaking even on the Suspension stuff now and developing another body lift...at his cost and time.., while only supporting one platform. Pretty impressive really.

Not the full offroad intent some have, but getting more involved with the platform and lifting, for looks or some minor usage or poor offroaders doing what they can to wheel. I am proud to run his stuff. I may have gone BDS but at the time I did not have the cash and I have not had any issues with his products. Actually if money was not an object, I would run a similar setup to Alek and support no vendor that supports the 360 platform.

From what Mark told me in one of our phone conversations before I got my lift, the two of them were prototyping together when Larry said they didn't want to pursue it anymore. He then marketed the product solo, which is why Mark decided to offer an alternative that was more wallet friendly. I stand behind Mark for both of his projects. He has done a lot to help a lot of members and his parts are top quality for the price. With over 100k on the odometer I am glad I have more cost effective suspension and body lift options so I don't have to pour so much into this while effectively using it and saving for it's eventual replacement. Being on a fixed income right now and still being able to experiment is a great thing to me.

I think they're doing triage. The GMT360 platform is never going to be taken as a serious offroad platform. Just look where the front diff is bolted to. So with limited market appeal, and THOUSANDS more Yukon/Tahoe/Suburban/pickup owners, where should they put their effort?

I doubt there are 300 lifted trailvoys in the world. And half or more of them, like half of Mark's sales, are for mall lifts. Look at the lack of aftermarket coilovers. ALL these suspension product companies can't be crazy. I'm convinced WE are.

What's the worldwide market YOU would predict for $1200 trailvoy coilovers? How many the first month from the early adopters? How many the next quarter? The next year? Next five years?

In general I think the free market capitalistic system we have is efficient. If there's a market for a product that can make a profit, somebody will be doing it. If nobody's offering it, that's a VERY GOOD CLUE that it's not a profitable market compared to alternatives that companies in that market see. Marketing folks aren't generally stupid. To assume so might cause you to come to flawed conclusions.

My point is they are fools not to take advantage of this resource, here or on the os. Very piss poor marketing and a sales structure that is bound to fail with such inept lack of foresight and judgment.

I think they're doing triage. The GMT360 platform is never going to be taken as a serious offroad platform. Just look where the front diff is bolted to. So with limited market appeal, and THOUSANDS more Yukon/Tahoe/Suburban/pickup owners, where should they put their effort?

I doubt there are 300 lifted trailvoys in the world. And half or more of them, like half of Mark's sales, are for mall lifts. Look at the lack of aftermarket coilovers. ALL these suspension product companies can't be crazy. I'm convinced WE are.

What's the worldwide market YOU would predict for $1200 trailvoy coilovers? How many the first month from the early adopters? How many the next quarter? The next year? Next five years?

In general I think the free market capitalistic system we have is efficient. If there's a market for a product that can make a profit, somebody will be doing it. If nobody's offering it, that's a VERY GOOD CLUE that it's not a profitable market compared to alternatives that companies in that market see. Marketing folks aren't generally stupid. To assume so might cause you to come to flawed conclusions.

Couldn't agree more. When you lay it out like that, our platform is a dying market and it doesn't serve the big guys to waste time and effort pushing products that make up a fraction of a percent of their sales. Just this year at Carlisle, some guy walked by our lil old lifted section and snickered as one of them said "what the hell can you do with a lifted Trailblazer?" The thing is that most people won't know unless they own one. And they will never own one unless it can do what they want, which will probably involve SAS swaps, etc. Which are mods that don't reuse our parts anyway. Truth be told, I would go full size if I could do it again. or Jeep. But I have to make do with what I own, and that's ok because of everyone here that pushes the limits and lets the rest know where to start and where to finish.

AMEN!! And amen to the full-size too, but now that I have my Trailblazer, I wouldn't be as happy driving anything else.

[bgwolfpack]

Ok, now that we have that idea killed.Tell me do you really think that Mark will be building coils for mall use in a year or two when that little company decides to fall to the premise of 'wasted time' after all the work and intent and mileage by you, after research and hard truths fail to impress, come the passing of this Thanksgiving. Should the new mantra be 'Buy it now, use it now for we are dying'.

Coilovers, something to discuss and dream about.

Another pipe dream.

[The Roadie]

... do you really think that Mark will be building...

Honestly, I think Mark is performing a valuable service for the mall cruisers, but he's putting his entire net worth at risk for any lawsuit. Real lift companies have corporate lawyers and some protection for the owners. Not that a spacer lift can break in any way that can cause an accident, but in case any of his customers roll over and the ambulance chasers arrive to sue anybody with any assets at all, he's going to need to go back to his customers for a defense fund. Hope it never comes to that, of course.

If Mark has sold 50 lift kits, that's 50 fewer sold by the commercial companies who might have offered follow-on products, but who now can conclude the market's smaller than they thought. I'm personally worse off for that, since I might have wanted those products. For anybody who bought Mark's kit because $200 more is unaffordable, I have all the sympathy in the world because I'm also working with a budget limitation now I never used to have. But discount lift kits and aggressive offroad expeditions just don't belong together. That's why there's a place for the OS, and a place for this site.

Coilovers, something to discuss and dream about.

I have pics of the prototypes, but it's true that I've quit trying to expedite them. Wastes my time and annoys the distributor.

[bgwolfpack]

Words from Roadies mouth, "Wastes my time and annoys the distributor."

That's the attitude I expect

[Trail X]

Whats going to end up happening is Bill will get his prototype coil-overs... and the rest of us will never get the opportunity because the company will then say... after more research, the potential market isn't large enough. Sorry!

Then we'll just have to and make our own.

... Wasn't this topic about Z71 springs? You guys are so bad about getting off topic!

[The Roadie]

You guys are so bad about getting off topic!

So moderate us.

We seriously might need a thread to vent about vendors, mall cruisers that distort the market that should be OURS except there's more of them so it's really THEIRS, and the relative shortage of owner-welders and owner-fabricators compared to other platforms.

We DO enjoy our amenities while offroading, and that attracts a different population (on average) than other vehicles. We are our own worst enemies.

[bgwolfpack]

Sorry

Z71 springs are wonderful and cheap.

Two words-'825-C25R Softride'.

That's where we need to look, at products we can bastardize for our platform sense it's dead.

Z71s are a great avenue though.

[The Roadie]

Z71 springs are wonderful and cheap.

Yah. I'd like to buy the guy a beer who figured out you could buy 'em so cheap as takeoffs on Ebay.

[Trail X]

Go to your fridge... grab beer.

Now you can check that one off your to-do list.

[bgwolfpack]

Yah. I'd like to buy the guy a beer who figured out you could buy 'em so cheap as takeoffs on Ebay.

Oh Boy, I can see him now leaning back in his chair at the computer with legs extended on top of desk. His pearly whites sending a beam to the heavens as he slowly brushes his hair and contemplates how drunk he'd be if it wasn't so early on the west coast.

Thanks is too often forgot when one is set on ones own path.

Z71 springs are a great upgrade.

Are you a mall cruiser or Roadie rated?

[janesy86]

I'd buy him a beer or two... Good find Roadie.

[Saxis]

Any word on the rear BDS shocks to go with the Z71 springs? These are about the last piece to my puzzle of lifting and upgrading everything in one shot. Any other recommendation if these still aren't available? OEM Tahoe shocks? Maybe Bilstein HD Tahoe rear shocks?

[The Roadie]

I emailed my BDS contact again to see if he can do it now SEMA's over. If nothing else I can get you the raw shock number and some separate hardware part numbers for the mounts. Let's see if he replies today or Monday.

[The Roadie]

Fascinating. BDS fit some shocks on their mildly lifted TB and liked the change so much they're changing the standard kit to have the upgraded shock!

So any trailblazer kits bought after about next week would have the 2 3/8" shock body from the '07-09 Tahoe/Suburban kit, not the original 2" shock body from the original specified kit.

Teebes and I heartily recommend these, certainly over the stock length Bilsteins and even the original BDS ones.

Part numbers:

Hydraulic - BDS kit #55619 (shock cylinder number stamped on it: new 6251, old 6266) - about $47 each.
Gas Pressurized - #95619 (new: 5251, old 5266) - about $117 each.

Dimensions:
Old: Extended: 25.95 Collapsed: 15.42 Body dia.:2"
New: Extended 26.20 Collapsed: 15.80 Body Dia.: 2-3/8"

Remember, with BDS you need to buy the boots separately if you want them.